Pavel Petrovich son of Catherine I and Peter the Great survives

Now, there were two Pavels who were sons of Catherine and Peter, the Pavel I'm on about is the Pavel born in 1717, he died the same year. Let's assume that he survives, what consequences are there here? Who might he marry? And would he be the one to succeed his mother when she dies, instead of Peter II, or would it be Peter who succeeds and then Pavel?
 
Now, there were two Pavels who were sons of Catherine and Peter, the Pavel I'm on about is the Pavel born in 1717, he died the same year. Let's assume that he survives, what consequences are there here? Who might he marry? And would he be the one to succeed his mother when she dies, instead of Peter II, or would it be Peter who succeeds and then Pavel?

Second of 3 Pavels, actually. Pavel Petrovich (b.1704, d.1707), Grand Duke Pavel (b.1717) and Grand Duke Pavel (II) (b.1724).

Wasn't there something wrong with one of the younger boys, @Valena (not sure which Pavel or Pyotr it was)? He was late to reach his milestones or something, I think.

But if he DOES survive, it means momma's reign might be removed and she would just be regent. Unless somehow Peter acknowledges his similarly aged grandson as heir (unlikely).
 
It was Pyotr Petrovich (1715-1719) who had development retardation (was unable to walk and talk at the age of 3).
 
It was Pyotr Petrovich (1715-1719) who had development retardation (was unable to walk and talk at the age of 3).

Ahhh, I see. So, Pavel should be okay? Would, he be placed under guard if his nephew Peter II still succeeds his mother?
 
It is likely that Catherine is no Tsarina in her own right there, only a Regent, since Pyotr was named the official successor, and with second surviving son from Catherine Peter would write the will in his favor (which is a plus compared to OTL, since it sorta butterflies the succession mess).
Now, Menshikov would be the de-facto regent over the boy (Catherine I was not much of a ruler, admit this) and would try to engage the boy to his daughter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Menshikova ), like he planned OTL for Peter II.
OTL Peter II would likely be kept far away from politics unless the succession crisis emerges or the alcoholism of the parents still produces a child with mental retardation (though for Menshikov a Russian Carlos II is a boon), so there are troubles with male succession.

Really, out of late Peter/Catherine children (that is, born past 1710) only Natalya Petrovna (1718-1725) managed to be relatively healthy/OK. That's why chronic drunkards have bad fertility records.
 
It is likely that Catherine is no Tsarina in her own right there, only a Regent, since Pyotr was named the official successor, and with second surviving son from Catherine Peter would write the will in his favor (which is a plus compared to OTL, since it sorta butterflies the succession mess).
Now, Menshikov would be the de-facto regent over the boy (Catherine I was not much of a ruler, admit this) and would try to engage the boy to his daughter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Menshikova ), like he planned OTL for Peter II.
OTL Peter II would likely be kept far away from politics unless the succession crisis emerges or the alcoholism of the parents still produces a child with mental retardation (though for Menshikov a Russian Carlos II is a boon), so there are troubles with male succession.

Really, out of late Peter/Catherine children (that is, born past 1710) only Natalya Petrovna (1718-1725) managed to be relatively healthy/OK. That's why chronic drunkards have bad fertility records.

Hmm interesting, so Peter II is kept away from the throne by his grandfather do you think? Or just simply kept away from proper power, and likely dying at the same time? Pavel potentially suffering some mental deficency unless he gets a benefit like his sister did. Hmm interesting. And a marriage to Maria could see her family ensconsced for some time, unless Pavel gets tired of her father
 
I think "Kept away from proper power", maybe in obscurity, the year of death depends on many factors i.e. lifestyle etc - epidemics are not set in stone.
 
I think "Kept away from proper power", maybe in obscurity, the year of death depends on many factors i.e. lifestyle etc - epidemics are not set in stone.

This is very true, does this therefore mean that he'd be Tsar only in name? Would the betrothal between him and Maria be avoided, in favour of Maria being married to Pavel?
 
The Tsar would likely be Pavel. He'll take the place of Pyotr Petrovich in Peter I will.
Peter is just a Grand Prince with passion for hunting and strigently (or not so strigently) monitored connections, being 3rd to 2nd in line to throne.
 
The Tsar would likely be Pavel. He'll take the place of Pyotr Petrovich in Peter I will.
Peter is just a Grand Prince with passion for hunting and strigently (or not so strigently) monitored connections, being 3rd to 2nd in line to throne.

Okay interesting, so Maria's definitely marrying Pavel then. Seeing Pavel start chafing at the bit, when he's around sixteen would be fascinating. I imagine Menshikov would pursue a policy of neutrality in foreign wars?
 
Okay interesting, so Maria's definitely marrying Pavel then. Seeing Pavel start chafing at the bit, when he's around sixteen would be fascinating. I imagine Menshikov would pursue a policy of neutrality in foreign wars?

Well Pyotr did start champing BEFORE 16 I might add IIRC. He got sick and tired of Menshikov's domineering attitude. And the crisis point came when he gifted an object to his sister, Grand Dss Natalia and Menshikov swiped it. "We shall see who is master here, he or I!" barked Pyotr. And Menshikov was soon sent on all expenses paid vacation to Siberia.

@Valena, I thought Marta/Ekaterina's (serious) drinking only started AFTER Peter died. I mean, we're not counting the keggers frat boy Peter threw. But IIRC there was a military review during Ekaterina's reign where she turned up drunk as a lord and the Spanish (?) ambassador described her as looking rather the slut and acting accordingly.
 
@Valena, I thought Marta/Ekaterina's (serious) drinking only started AFTER Peter died. I mean, we're not counting the keggers frat boy Peter threw. But IIRC there was a military review during Ekaterina's reign where she turned up drunk as a lord and the Spanish (?) ambassador described her as looking rather the slut and acting accordingly.
Well, let's say that the parties sometimes got... overenthusiastic, and no excuses for being pregnant were made. Peter was proud of a wife who can hold her liquor just as good as any man.
Maybe that's coincidence, but increased number of parties matches the decrease in number of healthy children born.
 
Well Pyotr did start champing BEFORE 16 I might add IIRC. He got sick and tired of Menshikov's domineering attitude. And the crisis point came when he gifted an object to his sister, Grand Dss Natalia and Menshikov swiped it. "We shall see who is master here, he or I!" barked Pyotr. And Menshikov was soon sent on all expenses paid vacation to Siberia.

@Valena, I thought Marta/Ekaterina's (serious) drinking only started AFTER Peter died. I mean, we're not counting the keggers frat boy Peter threw. But IIRC there was a military review during Ekaterina's reign where she turned up drunk as a lord and the Spanish (?) ambassador described her as looking rather the slut and acting accordingly.

Hmm interesting, so we could see Pavel doing so at around the same time then? Be interesting to see if his wife has any say in how her father is treated r not
 
Well, let's say that the parties sometimes got... overenthusiastic, and no excuses for being pregnant were made. Peter was proud of a wife who can hold her liquor just as good as any man.
Maybe that's coincidence, but increased number of parties matches the decrease in number of healthy children born.

What about thebeauty Ekaterina "Smaragda" Cantemir replacing Maria Menshikova? Its a "foreign" match but still sort of Russian. She only married in 1751 OTL, but if she catches the eye of a horny teenage czar then...
 
What about thebeauty Ekaterina "Smaragda" Cantemir replacing Maria Menshikova? Its a "foreign" match but still sort of Russian. She only married in 1751 OTL, but if she catches the eye of a horny teenage czar then...

Is she the daughter of the Moldavian Prince?
 
Hmm interesting, so we could see Pavel doing so at around the same time then? Be interesting to see if his wife has any say in how her father is treated r not

That depends if they're married. Pyotr II still liked Maria IIRC but he refused to see her and sent her dad away. The English sources seem to disagree on whether Maria went with to Siberia or not.
 
Is she the daughter of the Moldavian Prince?

By his second marriage. Her elder half sister with the same name Peter the Great considered divorcing Ekaterina for and remarrying to get a son. Sound like any English monarchs we know? First wife abandoned, second wife divorced and all for a boy?
 
By his second marriage. Her elder half sister with the same name Peter the Great considered divorcing Ekaterina for and remarrying to get a son. Sound like any English monarchs we know? First wife abandoned, second wife divorced and all for a boy?

Lol this is very true. Hmm, with Pavel being born in 1717 and Maria born in 1711, how likely is it that they could be married by say 1730?
 
Lol this is very true. Hmm, with Pavel being born in 1717 and Maria born in 1711, how likely is it that they could be married by say 1730?

The age gap might be considered too big. It was no problem when the husband was older. But I could definitely see Menshikov's enemies/rivals make a mountain of a molehill with it. Then again, Maria died (IIRC) when they came back from Siberia or giving birth to twins (whose? Some backwoodsman out in Siberia's?). So she could marry Pavel, and still die more or less on schedule forcing him to remarry. It all depends on his relationship with Menshikov though
 
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