I think that unified Korea will see major development - while its involvement in the Vietnam War is butterflied away, there were other factors leading to the Miracle on the Han River. Plus, with North Korea, they'll have access to major rare earth deposits, which will make Korea majorly important for tech.
I can see an earlier Korea-China rapprochement with Mao gone. While - unless they royally screw the pooch - I see the CCP still holding power, the more moderate government we see ITTL will probably be easier to open dialogues with at an early stage, plus there's not going to the same animus there as there is IRL for North Korea's government.
Japan and unified Korea will be the big players in 'capitalist Asia'.
I did consider an epilogue, to the point I actually drafted one a few weeks ago (the general idea of it was that it would be a sort of tour through the MacArthur Presidential Library a number of years after his death). That version of the story (and the ending I planned to use for a couple of months) would have seen Mac blown up while on a victory parade in Egypt (ie kinda like what happened with Patton, only it wasn't a fakeout), so I guess it already had a fairly obvious ending anyway.
Thing that stopped me in the end was actually that last scene, where Mac is looking out at the world as though it is leaving him behind. I've had that planned for a long time, although until very late in the process it was going to be much earlier - first at the very beginning of the Egypt saga (ie the moment he really doubles down on destroying Nasser in face of Eden and others' warnings), and then at the start of the battle of Cairo - for the same reason. It's too good an image not to use, perfectly representing his total self-absorption and conviction that he's right, with the reality that the world is changing around him and indeed leaving him behind. Then the day I was writing what would be the last draft of ch48, I just thought "why not use that scene as the ending", as opposed to having him sort of disappear into the sunset while on parade in Egypt (having tossed the "blow him up" idea).
Problem with ending on a character wondering "what went wrong?", is that if you actually answer that question (which an epilogue inevitably would), the image is ruined, and I like that image far too much to ruin it with a follow-up.
The epilogue I did draft was pretty much the following: (I'm putting it under a spoiler just in case anyone doesn't want the image spoiled even by what amounts to a dot-point summary of some old ideas!)
Mac just retires and more or less disappears to his home in Milwaukee, writes his memoirs or something, eventually a class of aircraft carriers gets named in his honour (and the USS Douglas MacArthur becomes the flagship of the 7th Fleet), and mentioning that proposed statue of him in Tokyo Bay (that we discussed a few pages back) actually getting built. The "Plato" quote (actually said by someone else, Mac was wrong about that!) was still going to be the final line, but as an inscription on an archway as you leave the MacArthur Museum.
Would be? I'd think that ITTL would be probable that the OTL wars between Israel and their neighbours would probably be butterflied. Cause, for one, I don't think probable that with an Israel so strongly allied to both Britain and the US, that's in the possession of the Sinai and with Egypt ''neutered'', that the King of Jordan, would be willing to risk a war without Egypt with a seemingly US backed and so strong military Israel. Of course, that TTL, the above considered, wouldn't preclude that would be Israel, who would start a war against one or more of their neighbours.
So, given that, I don't think that TTL the Arab states would be able to look for Soviet military assistance and political support against the US and Israel. I'd think that, given TTL new geopolitical scenario, that it would leave to Siria and Irak, as the only Arab nations that theoretically, in this scenario, 'd be able or willing to start a war with Israel.
Ones US that has shown their willingness to intervene military in the region and that seems to have a kind of 'Imperial Entente Cordiale' with URSS. An seemingly implicit quid pro quo, at least, agreement between both world powers, that TTL would be giving free hand to the Soviet to intervene and support military their communist puppet regime in Iran.
But, I think that we could safely discard that Irak 'd be able or willing , for two reason: one, an stronger British political influence and second, and more probably that would be more worried about menace of the Communist/Soviet Iran would pose for them. Without mention that Irak which, I'd assume that, would be flooded with Iranian refuges and exiled, whom, I'd guess would fear and have a deep hatred against the Soviet and that also, Irak, would have in relation to TTL Soviet Iran, the same rol that OTL had Pakistan to Afghanistan.
I think that unified Korea will see major development - while its involvement in the Vietnam War is butterflied away, there were other factors leading to the Miracle on the Han River. Plus, with North Korea, they'll have access to major rare earth deposits, which will make Korea majorly important for tech.
I can see an earlier Korea-China rapprochement with Mao gone. While - unless they royally screw the pooch - I see the CCP still holding power, the more moderate government we see ITTL will probably be easier to open dialogues with at an early stage, plus there's not going to the same animus there as there is IRL for North Korea's government.
Japan and unified Korea will be the big players in 'capitalist Asia'.
, I don't think probable that with an Israel so strongly allied to both Britain and the US, that's in the possession of the Sinai and with Egypt ''neutered'', that the King of Jordan, would be willing to risk a war without Egypt with a seemingly US backed and so strong military Israel.
When I lived in Libya in 1977/8 there was a concerted anti-Israel poster campaign which showed Begin being pulled in a rickshaw by Sadat. My Egyptian colleagues were all of the view that the Libs were wholly committed to fight Israel - to the last drop-off Egyptian blood...
Being the first of her class of the largest Naval Vessel the USN ever commissioned, it might be 'Little Mac' even 'Ole Corncob' as it was a pipe that rarely smoked. Seems when not photographed, he would smoke cigars or cigarettes, not the pipe.
What I love about the ending you've given us is that we know just enough behind the scenes (and off screen, because we're all history nerds) to really know how many things could go wrong and leave us with the sense that Mac is handing his successor serious unresolved problems at home and abroad, but that simply forces us to look at the undeniably positive developments (compared to OTL) in some of the major areas of divergence (Korea united! China spared the Great Leap Forward! Germany united and neutral! US-USSR detente in the mid-50s!) with a more nuanced view than simply "the end result is a better world".
I'm also enjoying the post-finale discussion, because it's an excuse to try and really get into an "ITTL" mindset and think about Mac's term from the perspective of those who've lived it, and not just compare it to OTL. I'm positive that if we lived in TTL and experienced Mac's... peculiar approach to the presidency and his standoffish relationship with critics of any stripe, we'd have a very different opinion of him ("Why isn't he responding to this good-intentioned criticism?" is, IMO, how a lot of people end up switching from approval to disapproval). It would probably be very easy to get swept up by Pearson's criticisms of his foreign policy without the benefit of OTL knowledge.
To be honest, just the fact that MacArthur is leaving behind a less interventionist CIA and a cleaner FBI - given what we know those two got up to in the 50s and 60s IOTL - is probably the most unintentionally great thing he's done ITTL. A US that is more restrained in its (clandestine) anti-communism has huge, positive ramifications for Latin America and the civil rights movement going forward (no Operation Condor or FBI harassment of MLK for example).
I now am wondering if considering the strongly aligned with Moscow, that OTL, were the many of the Western nations and Latin-American Communist parties and their press, if given TTL US-URSS political rapprochement and their de facto Entente, would Moscow abstain to condemn the American-British intervention. But, also, if so, if it would cause some kind of internal schism and/or to be formed open dissidences among the international Left, due to the traditional suppression of dissident opinions from the Moscow line, between the Communists parties. Then, I'd think that it eventually could possibly lead to the political grow from, OTL, Marxist minority political dissidents (from the Soviet official line) groups such as the Trotskyists and the Maoists.
I now am wondering if considering the strongly aligned with Moscow, that OTL, were the many of the Western nations and Latin-American Communist parties and their press, if given TTL US-URSS political rapprochement and their de facto Entente, would Moscow abstain to condemn the American-British intervention. But, also, if so, if it would cause some kind of internal schism and/or to be formed open dissidences among the international Left, due to the traditional suppression of dissident opinions from the Moscow line, between the Communists parties. Then, I'd think that it eventually could possibly lead to the political grow from, OTL, Marxist minority political dissidents (from the Soviet official line) groups such as the Trotskyists and the Maoists.
This will accelerate the distancing of the "radical" left from the Moscow orthodoxy ITTL IMO, and we may get an earlier version of the post-1970s Eurocommunism as a result. It may also strengthen more "traditional" center-left parties, especially if there's less dark money from the CIA funding efforts to undermine them.
This will accelerate the distancing of the "radical" left from the Moscow orthodoxy ITTL IMO, and we may get an earlier version of the post-1970s Eurocommunism as a result. It may also strengthen more "traditional" center-left parties, especially if there's less dark money from the CIA funding efforts to undermine them.
Agree, thus, would be a distinct possibility and even could enhance the OTL, the political position of Tito's Yugoslavia, among the European Left so as among the Nonaligned movement and/or 'd cause to have a closer political relation with the De Gaulle France.
About, L. A. on the traditional Marxist parties this would possibly cause a political split and 'd be formed self-denominated independent Communist parties. But, also, I'd guess, an earlier emergence from, if not of the OTL L. A. New Left, but of very critical political, ideological positions to the 'mainstream' Left both from the center Left and of course from the more extreme and/or radical positions towards the parties aligned with Moscow.
This will accelerate the distancing of the "radical" left from the Moscow orthodoxy ITTL IMO, and we may get an earlier version of the post-1970s Eurocommunism as a result. It may also strengthen more "traditional" center-left parties, especially if there's less dark money from the CIA funding efforts to undermine them.
So what are the odds of the Czechs and Hungarians getting crushed under the Red Army’s boot heels? I believe it was mentioned (or at least prognosticated) the Hungarians were given enough slack that they had some protests but no attempted revolution.
I do wonder how long Malenkov can stay in power. If he does then he probably stays in charge into the late 70s at least, assuming the stress of ruling takes a toll on his health (the man died in 1988 OTL). The fun part of the thawing of relations with the US is a more friendly rivalry in the space race with cooperation being the ultimate hope.
Anyone here familiar with “no cultural Revolution/Great Leap Forward” threads? China may be a lot more hard left than OTL without the sheer horror they went through. It could greatly affect China-USSR relations.
So what are the odds of the Czechs and Hungarians getting crushed under the Red Army’s boot heels? I believe it was mentioned (or at least prognosticated) the Hungarians were given enough slack that they had some protests but no attempted revolution.
100%, no doubt about it and no hesitation in answering. There are Red Army tanks in Tehran, the Warsaw Pact is not getting less than that. The only possible reason for the Red Army not to march in is because it's dealing with the same at home, which I admit isn't entirely out of the realm of possibility with the added strain of military intervention in Iran.
I do wonder how long Malenkov can stay in power. If he does then he probably stays in charge into the late 70s at least, assuming the stress of ruling takes a toll on his health (the man died in 1988 OTL). The fun part of the thawing of relations with the US is a more friendly rivalry in the space race with cooperation being the ultimate hope.
What they save on the arms race, they'll be spending on the occupation of Iran, which I imagine will be a never-ending source of consternation, bloodletting and conflict for the Soviet Union. The country is big, diverse and far away, and resistance to Soviet occupation is going to be fierce. The challenges facing the USSR are still significant, but it still seems likely he'd outlast Kruschev. And if he doesn't, it might be the Soviets pursuing the more belligerent course if they course-correct away from Malenkov's mutual non-interference.
Back to the M. East, I wonder what would be the future of Jerusalem east, in this TTL? Would be kept by Jordan, though perhaps under a special status granted to Israel? Or would Jordan probe unable/unwilling to resist the most than probable, IMO, diplomatic pressures from Israel and would have to 'negotiate it away'? Also, and related, the Jordan king throne would be more safer ITTL than OTL?
Cause, the above questions' answers would, at least IMO, be key to TTL region's future.
Being the first of her class of the largest Naval Vessel the USN ever commissioned, it might be 'Little Mac' even 'Ole Corncob' as it was a pipe that rarely smoked.
