Patton in Korea/MacArthur in the White House
- Thread starter BiteNibbleChomp
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Mostly because I’ve been reading Caro’s LBJ books, how is LBJ (and the “Preparedness” Committee) handling this short successful war?
Wolf of Badenoch
Donor
Hmm, yes, the Malayan campaign. IMHO the only really successful communist insurgency suppression post WW2.
Wolf of Badenoch
Donor
Absolutely, but employment is only one measure. Britain was on its uppers and the Attlee government was spending money on social programmes which really wasn't there. Hence the 'export or die' slogan. Much of the additional employment was created to post war reconstruction including the biggest new housing plan ever.
I haven't read much about LBJ's work so I can't go into too much detail, but the way I have been thinking of the Truman administration's view of the war is that there's a split: on one side you have people like Bradley that realise what a close call the Army had early on, and believe that the war should be a lesson to the Army that they can't afford to 'cut to the bone' any more... on the other side you have Truman and a few others who see the war's quick turnaround as a vindication of their previous policies and particularly that the US military can just show up and win because "we're the best" (ie. what they thought was going to happen with Task Force Smith). The budget Truman gives the military in his last year of office is around 25-30bn... halfway between the maximum post-war economisation (which was ~9bn) and the Korean War heights of ~50bn.
Nutty part is, that New Deal description is not far off being a word for word description of his view of the program in his memoir. Nor was it a one-off, if you read between the lines a little bit he does it with labour and a couple of other issues (and seeing as only about 20 pages are overtly about his political views (not counting his bragging about stuff in Japan), that's a lot!). As soon as I read what he was saying in his memoirs, that bit wrote itself
. His Reminiscences are quite the reading experience!Not sure if 'triplethink' is a word or not, but it really ought to be because it describes Mac perfectly.
- BNC
I'm actually expecting Eisenhower as the Democratic candidate...
marathag
Banned
South Vietnam tried that playbook.
Relocations, defoliants, heavy patrolling, near all of it.
But the location of the country made all the difference. South Vietnam had large land borders with unfriendly areas that were not under control
man i there are like three ways i want this to go and im not sure which i want more although one is based off a certain recent election which would be an interesting character arc but i dont know if i want that more than the others good luck
You just made me realize that MacArthur will be President during France’s war in Vietnam. How willing would Mac be to propping up the French there, especially if there’s a *Dien Bien Phu ITTL.
Ah sorry it was a joke. LBJ’s subcommittee was 90% designed to get headlines for himself. Often by repackaging existing reports with better writing and suckering reporters—but he did hire real investigators who found a few minor things. Appreciate the look into Truman’s thinking though
They did do one interesting and important thing however: exposed how bad military housing for dependents was, which resulted in the pretty darn decent base housing situation today. That should still be fine despite the shorter war.
Interestingly, MacArthur actually advised JFK and LBJ against a military buildup in Vietnam. That being said, I'm not sure if he would take his own advice if he were actually the one calling the shots.
Took a look at this and it’s interesting to see Mac so vehemently argue against a land war in Asia. The article I read postulated that the conclusion wasn’t from his experience in Korea but from Japan’s experience in WWII. Basically that China will keep throwing bodies at a problem until it stops being a problem.
The question here is whether he’d change his mind. OTL had the hindsight of Korea and WWII to show that China couldn’t be ground down and forced to admit defeat. TTL showed China getting stopped and even pushed back at moments instead.
Wolf of Badenoch
Donor
To be fair, the fact that communists were nearly all ethnic Chinese who only had limited support from the Malay majority greatly assisted the colonial forces. It has been said that this led to problems early on in the troubles in Northern Ireland where some of the older Int Corps officers and security service personnel were confused by the fact that the only Chinese in evidence in the Province were engaged in the catering business.
I mean, SV's government never gave its people a reason to actually want to fight for it other than 'we're not communist'. Doubt the best geography in the world could have saved it from itself.
I did read George W Bush's Decision Points in January to get a better sense of what the life of a president is actually like (by the way, it's a really good read!), and of course Mac's term is going to be similar to Ike's first just because they will be in office at the same time and dealing with (mostly) the same sort of events. Outside of those two, I'd like to think I won't be taking anything too directly from other presidencies
That's going to be a big chunk of Part V
Surely with Mac running the newspapers don't have any more space for self-indulgent headlines?Ah sorry it was a joke. LBJ’s subcommittee was 90% designed to get headlines for himself. Often by repackaging existing reports with better writing and suckering reporters—but he did hire real investigators who found a few minor things. Appreciate the look into Truman’s thinking though
They did do one interesting and important thing however: exposed how bad military housing for dependents was, which resulted in the pretty darn decent base housing situation today. That should still be fine despite the shorter war.
I'd say you're right.I think maybe Mac has a shot
- BNC
marshall ky in his bold way, tried to create national unity and ataturk style gradual democratization. Not perfect but not a thief, like a lot of developing world leaders. if Only he and Thieu could have made nice.
Do you believe that MacArthur was in favour of civil rights for African Americans?
If he was he would have used the polite term of the era, 'Negro'. Even Malcolm X used that term in speeches I have seen. No one would have recognised the term 'African American'.
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