Patton commander of UN forces in the Korean War

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And in the end it still was the ground forces who had to do the job of breaking the German army and defeating the Germans, taking years of vicious fighting and around a million WAllied dead (to say nothing of the 8.7 million Soviet KIA who did the overwhelming bulk of the fighting, dying, and killing) to win.
What did those ground forces do in Europe? Did they sit there for 2 years like they did in Korea? No, they attacked.


Probably by launching close-in infantry assaults against a enemy ground force with copious quantities of artillery and automatic weapons, which is always going to be a bloody and vicious affair. Anglo-American airpower was a pinprick by comparison.
Bombs are way more powerful than shells. And how could they be good at avoiding air bombardment, but not so good at avoiding artillery bombardment?
 
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I appeal to the mods to close this discussion. This is getting ridiculous.

FACT (from someone trained in matching weapons to targets) bombs are not way more powerful than shells. For example a concrete installation that will shrug off 500 and 1,000 lb bombs will not like even 6" AP shells, let alone just one hit form a 16".
 
And how could they be good at avoiding air bombardment, but not so good at avoiding artillery bombardment?

Hi! I used to be an artilleryman, so I'll take a crack at this one.

The thing is, artillery has a very quick response time. You spot a target, call it in, and a few minutes later - less than 10 for sure, perhaps less than 2 - shells are landing on it. Most of the casualties in an artillery fire mission (we don't usually talk about bombardments these days) happen in the first few moments, before people have had a chance to get to cover. You also don't get much warning a fire mission is on its way. MAYBE the target will notice the adjusting rounds, MAYBE someone will hear the first rounds whistling through the air before they hit, but even so there just isn't much time. The other thing to consider is that artillery is often used defensively. If the Chinese are going to attack, they will have to leave cover at some point and start to get close to the UN forces. At that point they become vulnerable to artillery, and because of its quick response in any weather conditions the artillery is likely to be employed effectively.

None of this is remotely like a bombing raid by B-29s, or even an air strike by Corsairs or something. Strategic bomber raids are planned days in advance, against targets which are unlikely to move in that time. Air strikes are more responsive, but can still take hours to arrive, by which time the target may have either moved or taken cover. From a low-flying tactical aircraft it can be very difficult to see camouflaged troops, let alone attack them effectively. So it's entirely possible to be good at avoiding "air bombardment" while still being vulnerable to artillery.
 
I appeal to the mods to close this discussion. This is getting ridiculous.

FACT (from someone trained in matching weapons to targets) bombs are not way more powerful than shells. For example a concrete installation that will shrug off 500 and 1,000 lb bombs will not like even 6" AP shells, let alone just one hit form a 16".
An HC Mark 13 16 inch shell for a Mark 7 (Iowa class battleship gun) weighs 1,900 lbs and carries 153.6 lbs of explosives. A 2,000 lb MK84 bomb carries 945 lbs of explosives. A MOAB weighs 21,715 lbs and carries 8,500 kg (18,739.4 lbs) of explosives. So, obviously, you're getting much more bang for the buck with a bomb than a shell. FYI, a MOP (GBU-57/B) can penetrate 20 meters of concrete.
 
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CalBear

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What did those ground forces do in Europe? Did they sit there for 2 years like they did in Korea? No, they attacked.



Bombs are way more powerful than shells. And how could they be good at avoiding air bombardment, but not so good at avoiding artillery bombardment?
Looking at your posting history you received a warning last November for pretty much this same set of arguments and a blanket unwillingness to listen to other posters.

That being the case we'll just go up a notch and kick you for a week for repeating this trolling.
 
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