Partitioned British North America

It's complicated! On the one hand, you had the troops in New England burning the pope in effigy. OTOH, you had Catholics at the Continental Congress, and widespread Francophillia. Washington also attended a Catholic mass as a show of ecumenical unity during the Constitutional Convention, which he wouldn't have done if it was considered horrible. (This is a man who shunned controversial gestures all the time).

True, anti papism was not policy, but the views were very common among the populace, especially in New England (and in England it was official policy still), the annual burning of the pope in effigy had been done before the war and for a long time. The founder are interesting in this part, since many of them were English rite Masons, and thus had a very specific view on religion.
 
True, anti papism was not policy, but the views were very common among the populace, especially in New England (and in England it was official policy still), the annual burning of the pope in effigy had been done before the war and for a long time. The founder are interesting in this part, since many of them were English rite Masons, and thus had a very specific view on religion.

I think it was something of a racial issue; anti-catholicism in 19th century America focused on the filthy Irish stealing our jobs, while not caring about established Catholics. Nobody can trust the Spaniards, but Kentuckians named a county Bourbon.
 
Sucrose said:
I think Rupert's Land is going to be seized in a minute. Wasn't it practically entirely unsettled except for trading posts?
It was. It's also possible HBC simply sells to France, or the rump U.S. (since they were trying & failing to get HMG interested.:rolleyes:)

As for Britain ceding it, AIUI, it wasn't HMG's to cede.
 
I think it was something of a racial issue; anti-catholicism in 19th century America focused on the filthy Irish stealing our jobs, while not caring about established Catholics. Nobody can trust the Spaniards, but Kentuckians named a county Bourbon.

But they generally had less issue with the Protestant Irish no? But yes race was part of it, especially when you look at the Irish.
 
The US had a group of home-grown Catholics right from the beginning. Quebecois are going to be treated more similar to them than to the Irish immigrants of the 1840's.

Actually, for New England I'd suggest looking at how the Cape Verdeans were treated, as they were throughout RI and Southeast MA.
 
It's complicated! On the one hand, you had the troops in New England burning the pope in effigy. OTOH, you had Catholics at the Continental Congress, and widespread Francophillia. Washington also attended a Catholic mass as a show of ecumenical unity during the Constitutional Convention, which he wouldn't have done if it was considered horrible. (This is a man who shunned controversial gestures all the time).

Well, it depends on who the Francophilia is aimed at.

The French in France? Maybe, but it depends on political positions - Jefferson and the D-Rs were for France, and the Federalists were against it.

The French in Canada? That's when things shift.
 
Actually, for New England I'd suggest looking at how the Cape Verdeans were treated, as they were throughout RI and Southeast MA.

At least a decent portion of the point I was making is that early 19th century Americans felt very differently about native Catholics versus immigrant Catholics. In that case, immigrant Cape Verdeans, especially mullato Cape Verdeans, are going to be thought of differently than native Quebecois.
 
It was. It's also possible HBC simply sells to France, or the rump U.S. (since they were trying & failing to get HMG interested.:rolleyes:)

As for Britain ceding it, AIUI, it wasn't HMG's to cede.

Well I don't know about seizing it...but If OTL is anything to go on...Fur traders in Montreal can use the Upper lakes to compete directly with the posts on the bay for those Furs by going to the source in the hinterlands. For the HBC the natives initially brought the furs to them. the French were already starting to this so its not like they don't have a clue. So maybe something along the lines of the Pemmican wars that occurred later OTL but more of a commercial turf war than a political war, depending of course on how events transpire in France itself.

The HBC may just find a reason for an earlier Red River Settlement
 
Hmm, that raises a lot of interesting questions. Except for Newfoundland (which is a later development closer to Metropolitan French) and the Maritimes, Canadian French was largely a transplant of 17th century French, along with influence from other French varieties (from the Loire valley largely, but also from all over the place, including the Saintongeais variety which also proved crucial for both the development of Québec French and especially Acadian French, as did the shock of the dialects. I wonder what a renewed French immigration would do to Canadian French in TTL.

Since the north is where industry is likely to be established surplus population from the countryside will be drawn to those cities, which will still grow at a slower rate than their british counterparts, so I would think points south....
Occitan France, The Loire valley and points south to Gascony...and probably Brittany as well.

I expect though that the 1790's will still be time of great change and transition in France.
 
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