Grimbald

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If the long term outcome here is to create a permanant anger between the US and certain South American countries, the butterflies will be raptor size.

I could see the US vs SA being a theater of WW1 or something that keeps the US out of WW1.

It would be a different world indeed.
 
If the long term outcome here is to create a permanant anger between the US and certain South American countries, the butterflies will be raptor size.

I could see the US vs SA being a theater of WW1 or something that keeps the US out of WW1.

It would be a different world indeed.
If the war drags on and the US elects Wodrow Wilson... Shit is REALLY gonna hit the fan.
 
«"Sir, that is war!" "Yes, but we'll win it."» Foreign Relations Minister Gabriel Valdés and Admiral José Toribio Merino, 1964

(Note: Merino was a drunk a-hole, but the quote is good. One of the few he said that aren't ridiculous.)

Chapter Six: Conference

Medellín, July 9, 1885.

Four presidents and an Emperor were assembled in Medellín, Colombia.

_20160914_193612.JPG

First Flag(1898-1910) of the Medellín Alliance(1885-1937)

The light blue section represents Argentina, the two yellow stripes represent Colombia and Ecuador, the red part represents Chile. The Green Cross represents the Empire of Brazil. The star has five points, representing the five founding members of the Alliance.

Presidents Domingo Santa María, Julio Argentino Roca, José María Plácido Caamaño, Rafael Nuñez and Emperor Pedro II, of Chile, Argentina, Ecuador, Colombia and Brazil had assembled in Medellín, Colombia.

"Gentlemen, allow me to speak first. When separatists rose in Panama, we crushed them. But the arrival of the forces of the United States was not something we asked for. They, in their intent to intervene in the entire continent, have gone too far. They are a threat that none of our countries can deal with alone. This is a dangerous matter. If not kept under check, they could attack every country in South America. We need something to act as a countermeasure to the giant we have awakened. We have awoken a giant, but the giant shall find itself on the ground, humbled by the countries they thought would not do much." President of Colombia Rafael Nuñez said.

"Allow me to continue, President Nuñez. Our country denounced the abuse against the sovereignity of Colombia and were threatened because we denounced what we perceive as wrong. Ecuador, on its own, cannot stand against the United States. Something must be done." President Caamaño of Ecuador said, continuing what President Nuñez had stated.

"What do you suggest? Our countries united like your two countries were, when they were the Gran Colombia?" Emperor Pedro II of Brazil asked.

"Far from it, Emperor Pedro." President Nuñez said.

"That was my father, President Nuñez. We share a name, yes. I am not my father. I've done my best to keep Brazil away from war. Now, I've dragged my people into war, because I thought it was right. Now, if what I thought is not what you suggest, please, do explain." The Emperor of Brazil said.

"In this, I agree with Dom Pedro, President Nuñez. I still don't understand." President Roca said.

"Please, do elaborate." President Santa María said.

"It's quite simple, actually. Instead of uniting our countries into one big nation, we simply unite them in an alliance against external aggression." Nuñez said.

"A treaty signed by Ecuador, Colombia, Argentina, Chile and Brazil to defend one when attacked by an external power." Caamaño said.

"I refuse. My country went to war after being under attack from an alliance. Forming one that is even bigger would make me a hypocrite. It would make the sacrifice of Chileans from 1879 to 1883 pointless." Santa María said.

"If we allow the United States to do as they please, the sacrifice of our men will be pointless, President Santa María." Nuñez said.

"There are other ways to stop the United States. The arms are just one. Diplomacy can work just as well, when effective." Dom Pedro said.

"I agree, Dom Pedro. But if we hope to make an alliance of South American countries, this alliance must work with war as well as with diplomacy." Nuñez replied.

"So you want to make an alliance that can work together in peacetime and in war?" President Roca asked.

"That is correct, yes." Nuñez said.

"I must say, while interesting, I must say no. Even amongst ourselves, we have territorial disputes. This alliance of yours, could break with all the conflicts between us." Roca said.

"Besides, it's not a decision we can take just like that. Congress should be notified." Dom Pedro said.

"I find myself agreeing with President Roca and Dom Pedro, President Nuñez." Santa María said.

"I am aware, gentlemen. The alliance is not yet a thing. As of now, it is an idea that has just been presented." Nuñez said.

"Should we move on, gentlemen?" President Caamaño asked.

"We shall. Let me continue." Santa María said.

"Go ahead." Caamaño said.

"Alright. Right now, our forces are in Panama, with Riachuelo, Almirante Barroso and La Plata blockading Colón from the Atlantic. Esmeralda blockades the other side of the isthmus. While our first enemy to be attacked are the forces in Balboa, Colón must be retaken as well. Dom Pedro, would you care to continue?" Santa María said.

"Gladly. According to our sources, Colón is lightly defended and supplies are low. Estimates place it at barely 3,000 men. Once Balboa is cleared, give me a few weeks and I shall have enough men to retake Colón." Dom Pedro said.

"If a force from Argentina made up half of those men, could it be done faster?" Roca asked.

"It would save some time." Dom Pedro said.

"I shall have some men there too, it is Colombian territory after all. The men of Colombia should have some part in that." Nuñez said.

"Thank you, Presidents Nuñez and Roca. Our men shall colaborate in ridding the city of Colón from the Americans." Pedro II said.

"There is another matter to discuss. War reparations." Caamaño said.

"Colombia must have the reparations for the territory that has been occupied by the Americans and the men who gave their lives to liberate it. Boyacá must remain a Colombian ship." Nuñez said.

"Triunfo must remain a Chilean ship as well. Indemnization for our dead must be payed. We also demand the incarceration of James Edward Jouett." Santa María said.

"Reparations must be payed to Ecuador as well." Caamaño said, without giving reasons.

The conference continued with closed doors for five hours.

Medellín, October 8, 1885.

"It is with pride that I proclaim an official alliance between the United States of Colombia, the Republics of Ecuador, Chile, Argentina and the Empire of Brazil." President Nuñez said, officially announcing the birth of the Medellín Alliance. The speech(lasting twenty minutes) was repeated five days later in Bogotá.

While the alliance was announced at that point, officially, the start of the Alliance, with the Pact of Panama, was November 13, 1885.

Medellín Alliance

Members:

Founders
Colombia(1885-1937)
Ecuador(1885-1937)
Argentina(1885-1921) (1924-1937)
Chile(1885-1934)(1936-1937)
Brazil(1885-1899)(1903-1917) (1919-1932) (1935-1937)

Later joined
Venezuela(1889-1901)(1907-1920)(1928-1937)
Uruguay(1902-1922)
Peru(1919-1930)
Bolivia(1916-1918)

The main issues, such as the ones presented by Presidents Roca and Santa María, were somewhat solved, not fully, but enough for the time.

In 1927, the Medellín Alliance would be replaced by the South American League.

One of the most notable events was the Treaty of Bristol in 1895.

The Alliance did many things after the Panama War. The 1895 Treaty of Bristol, the 1900 Treaty of Maracaibo, (the Independence of Guyana) the 1906 Buenos Aires Olympic Games, the 1911 Anglo-German Accords, the 1915 South American Football Championship, hosted at Brazil, the 1917 Treaty of Guadalajara, the 1924 Quito Conference, the 1930 World Cup, hosted in Ecuador, the 1932 Valparaíso Olympic Games and the 1937 Treaty of Barranquilla were some of the more notable events of its existance during peacetime.

Balboa, Colombia, October 3, 1885.

"Major Silva, please check the conditions of the artillery." The man said.

"Right away, sir." Major Silva said, walking away.

The man looked at the city of Balboa.

"Admiral Lynch." Juan José Latorre said.

"Rear Admiral Latorre." Admiral Patricio Lynch said.

"We've been waiting for your arrival, Admiral." López said, greeting his superior.

"Do pardon the delay. My ship was delayed in Valparaíso." Lynch said.

"What are our orders, Admiral?" López asked.

"Esmeralda must remain here, blockading the isthmus. Cochrane must stay here when it arrives, Blanco is to depart in a week to Valparaíso. Captain Toro has requested Cochrane's help for another matter and our Minister of War accepted his request. I wouldn't expect Cochrane here until either later this month, or early November.." Lynch said.

"Vergara? Does he never tire of sending our plans to hell?" López asked.

"Watch it, Commander López. Vergara may be ignorant of naval matters, but he's still the Minister of War." Lynch said.

"Yet, in a war that has been mostly naval, the appointed minister is ignorant of such matters." Latorre said.

"It baffles me as well, Latorre, but we must do what we must do." Lynch said.

Easter Island, October 14, 1885.

"Captain Condell, thank you for your assistance in these matters. I understand that you are necessary elsewhere, for which I apologize, but this is an important matter." Captain Policarpo Toro said.

"As soon as we get it done, the sooner Cochrane will be in Panama." Condell said.

"Any news of the war?" Toro asked.

"Triunfo is in Antofagasta, undergoing repairs. At least enough to get it to Talcahuano." Condell said.

"Triunfo? Lieutenant, sorry, Captain Lynch's ship, I presume?" Toro said.

"About time. Estanislao has proven himself a capable commander and has shown to not collapse under pressure. He acted well in Punta Gruesa." Condell said of his former subordinate.

Estanislao Lynch was 2nd Lieutenant in the schooner Covadonga when it defeated the Peruvian ironclad Independencia, on May 21 of 1879. Under Captain Condell, Lynch, with the assistance of 1st Lieutenant Manuel Orella, kept the powerful Peruvian ironclad at bay.

"I agree. But, as you said, the sooner it's over, the sooner Cochrane can get to Panama." Toro said.

"Let's go, then." Condell said, headed to meet the King of Easter Island, Atamu Tekena.
 
How many ships does each side have?

US: About 120 ships(not counting ones in Europe or Asia) but just over 50 in condition to sail,(short trips) of which 14 are ironclads. All ships are from the Civil War era.

Chile: two twin ironclads, a monitor, a protected cruiser, 6 corvettes, two of which are undergoing repair, two weaponized transports and 8 torpedo boats. 12 surface ships.

Ecuador: No sources. Very likely just corvettes, schooners and gunboats. No more than 7 ships.

Colombia: Again, no sources before 1890(and even then, it's not exhaustive) so I place it at just under 10 ships.

Argentina: Not many sources and the ones that exist are usually from 1896 onwards, but two monitors, a school ship and a protected corvette appear. Considering it was inferior to the Chilean Navy until their arms race, 10 ships, but not as modern as the Chilean ships.

Brazil: Decent navy with powerful ships. At least four ironclads, with another entering into service later on. Three rekatively old monitors. 14~18 ships. Let's leave it at 16.

So roughly under 55 ships for the Alliance and about the same for the US.

The lack of records(at least, to my information) of the Argentine, Colombian and Ecuadorian Navy is what puts it about equal. Brazil keeps record of bigger ships, not little ships, such as corvettes, frigates and that kind of ships. The Alliance probably has a bigger advantage but without sources, I can't do anything on that, so they're roughly equal in quantity. Quality though...curbstomp.
 
Remember that less than 15 years later the US Navy had built itself enough to massacre Spain in the war for Cuba. So unless you introduce stable politics (too much caudillos) and industralization (big no for Britain that wants South America as its market for their products) the Alliance will still fall to the Americans in the next round.
 
Remember that less than 15 years later the US Navy had built itself enough to massacre Spain in the war for Cuba. So unless you introduce stable politics (too much caudillos) and industralization (big no for Britain that wants South America as its market for their products) the Alliance will still fall to the Americans in the next round.

To be fair, Chile(before 1891) and Argentina enjoyed a decent amount of stable government for a while after 1885. Brazil, Colombia and Ecuador were a different case. The various groups of rebels know better than to make an uprising against half of South America. So, any uprising they attempt is probably butterflied to several years later. The US Navy can be rebuilt, stronger than before, yes. But the other countries are now aware of the threat and can keep modernizing their navies.
 
A United Front both Without and Within can easily stabilize South America. Not all the Nations will face unrest at the same time, and if sufficient support can be given to the beleaguered nation then that itself is a major plus for them.

Though I don't see an easy way of doing that.
 
Would mexico get any land if they go after USA ?

I mean, I considered it. Decided against it.

Initially, Lynch led an attack on San Francisco which led to "The Chilean protectorate of California", which is in turn, offered to Mexico.

For a few months, the 'ruler' of California's internal issues is former Intendent of Santiago Benjamín Vicuña Mackenna(grandson of Juan Mackenna, Chilean hero of the War of Independence) who is named "Protector and Supreme Marshall of California"

This was retconned in the initial draft as US desire for retaliation would lead to no good after the war.
 
I mean, I considered it. Decided against it.

Initially, Lynch led an attack on San Francisco which led to "The Chilean protectorate of California", which is in turn, offered to Mexico.

For a few months, the 'ruler' of California's internal issues is former Intendent of Santiago Benjamín Vicuña Mackenna(grandson of Juan Mackenna, Chilean hero of the War of Independence) who is named "Protector and Supreme Marshall of California"

This was retconned in the initial draft as US desire for retaliation would lead to no good after the war.
True. Plus at this point Diaz hasn't fully taken over Mexico as he would by, say, 1890. If he tried to do something as dumb as declaring war he'd be overthrown, even if everyone liked him right after Gonzalez's awful term.
 
True. Plus at this point Diaz hasn't fully taken over Mexico as he would by, say, 1890. If he tried to do something as dumb as declaring war he'd be overthrown, even if everyone liked him right after Gonzalez's awful term.

Yeah. Doing that is borderline suicide.

I keep a list on historical characters I have to use. Lastarria, Amengual, Vicuña Mackenna, Carmela Carvajal, Lynch, Condell, Montt, Holley, Baquedano, Balmaceda, Allende,(the grandfather of the one you know) Del Canto, Silva Renard, Körner, Diaz, Pancho Villa, Rafael Reyes, McCalla, Jouett, Mahan, Grover Cleveland, Theodore Roosevelt.

One of the funniest and craziest ideas was continuing the story until the present, while having Chile taking Hawai. This leads to...President Barack Obama. Of Chile. Decided against it because it is batshit insane. The end should be in between 1910 and 1927.

[Non-Canon]

November 25, 1915...

Somewhere, chaos and destruction have taken a new face. A newborn face...
 
Getting the US to pay heavy reparations without bombing American cities of disrupting its trade will be.....quite hard. This war must end in less than a year or the US shipyards will start to crank ironclads which even if inferior than the Europeans-bought ones that South America has will come in quantity over quality.
 
Getting the US to pay heavy reparations without bombing American cities of disrupting its trade will be.....quite hard. This war must end in less than a year or the US shipyards will start to crank ironclads which even if inferior than the Europeans-bought ones that South America has will come in quantity over quality.

Please stay tuned for the 1900-1915 period. You'll see some surprises. ;)
 
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