Basically what it says in the title. How would a victorious CSA effect attempts to build a canal somewhere in central America. I assume that by the present day someone would have built it, but who? Would the US still go for it despite being farther from the region? Would the CSA try? Or would a European power build it, as the French initially attempted to?
Panama Canal in a CSA wins TL
- Thread starter Yossarian
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NothingNow
Banned
It would still be done, the CSA would be impotent enough to be unable to do anything about it, and It'd still be important to Union and UK strategically. Remember, the US is more likely than not going to hold on to Key West and the Dry Tortugas for dear life, and the CSA probably won't be able to project power at all save in the Gulf, in a manner that would embarras Monacco, so even the Crusoob state (Chan Santa Cruz) would be able to slap their shit, should they somehow get into the Caribbean.
It'll require local, or otherwise disease-proof labor from the rest of tropical Latin America to be completed under the French, since Yellow Fever, Chagas and Malaria will kill everyone who isn't already used to it.
wolf_brother
Banned
It wouldn't exist. The CSA wouldn't have the capital, manpower, diplomacy, international relations, or military to build the canal or to force the issue as the US did IOTL. So either the French complete it, or it never gets done. The US certainly isn't going to be looking to dig cruiser-sized trenches in Central America in a 'CSA wins' scenario.
But then do you think that no one will ever build it, even up until the present day? It seems like such an obviously useful thing to do that it's hard for me to imagine no one ever building a canal, even if it does take a lot longer than in OTL.
The problem is that none of the countries with the resources to do it in such a TL are the ones likely to see a whole lot value in it. It would more or less have to be done with private resources as far as I can see, and the French project is going to be a big hindrance to that. Really though the thing that makes it fall apart in terms of predictions as far as I'm concerned is just how many ways the butterflies can go in terms of WWI with such a drastically different situation in the America's.
Who would do it? The British would see the value in a isthmian canal and make it so.
Grey Wolf
Donor
One forgets about the "volcano" that scuppered plans to build the Nicaragua Canal - IIRC that was a US ploy to prevent the British doing it. Its been a while since I read the fluffy book, but in this scenario the US may not be in the same position as it was under Grant to send out its own missions, and to scupper the British plan.
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
It'd be like TTL's version of the space elevator.
"Damn, it'd be real nice if we had one of those things, and hell, it's even feasible if you think about it, but no... not in our lifetimes"
mowque
Banned
Probably get a Nicaraguan canal/lake system, which is much easier to build. Since our POD is in 1860's, it butterflies the French effort. Even if they try the FRENCH will try Panama. They had a fixation (due to the Suez) with a sea-level canal. This is impossible in Panama and many Frenchmen will die proving it.
It will fail spectacularly. The Union will want a Canal. It is obvious. It helps the two-ocean navy idea that was building. It'll help contain the CSA and help expand Union presence in the Caribbean market. It can be used as a military center to hold off CSA moves in Central America. It will be a prestige project, and the USA likes those.
The result may take longer (but not sure if it must. Not like the South was a key driver in building the canal. It was financed with northern cash, planned by northern engineers and built with local labor). The end result wouldn't be as impressive as Panama but it'll be easier to upgrade and work on.
It will fail spectacularly. The Union will want a Canal. It is obvious. It helps the two-ocean navy idea that was building. It'll help contain the CSA and help expand Union presence in the Caribbean market. It can be used as a military center to hold off CSA moves in Central America. It will be a prestige project, and the USA likes those.
The result may take longer (but not sure if it must. Not like the South was a key driver in building the canal. It was financed with northern cash, planned by northern engineers and built with local labor). The end result wouldn't be as impressive as Panama but it'll be easier to upgrade and work on.
wolf_brother
Banned
The Thai Canal is painfully obvious, and yet it hasn't happened IOTL. Just because something happens in our timeline doesn't mean it is required or bound to happen in another.
The British were against the Suez Canal until well after it was finished, and they were just as mull-headed about the Panama idea, and the plans for a Nicaraguan Canal and the Tehuantepec Route as well before that.
As Bureaucromancer, ITTL all of the great powers that could build it would be disinterested in doing such a thing.
David S Poepoe
Banned
Actually I don't believe it had anything to do with the British - mostly since they would have been aware of any volcanoes in the region. The stamp in question was circulated as a means to convince investors that the Nicaraguan route wouldn't be as safe as buying out the failed French company attempting to cut thru Panama.
France might have a SLIGHTLY better chance of building it without the U.S as close. Otherwise, the U.S would still gain it, determined as they were to control such an important location. They might even be more inclined to persuade the Colombians to let them build there more, instead of fostering rebellion in Panama instead.
Well it's not the USA directly affecting the French, but the CSA's presence might make the U.S.A not as interested in Latin America, instead focusing on their next door neighbor. This would give the French some extra time to work on the canal. Or Britain might take over instead.
Wolfpaw
Banned
They'd push for a Nicaraguan Canal. The myth of William Walker was strong IOTL's Confederacy, and several of the Founders (Soule, Benjamin, Beauregard) had significant investments in the country that they were looking to recoup.
The French were also interested in an a Nicaraguan Canal, so I could see a Franco-Confederate effort being launched.
The French were also interested in an a Nicaraguan Canal, so I could see a Franco-Confederate effort being launched.
NothingNow
Banned
Yeah, but that's because the Isthmus of Kra and Malaya aren't that bad to sail around, especially if you're just going to stop in Singapore anyway, unlike sailing around Africa or all of South America.