Pan-East Slavic state?

Hey all,

I'm currently conceptualizing a realistic way for China to be absorbed into the Soviet Union and have settled for a Chinese SFSR minus Manchuria, greater Mongolia and Uyghurstan/East Turkestan, which will be SSRs. Tibet and Taiwan remain outside the Union as independent states under "imperialist" protection. Although the Chinese population is much smaller than in OTL and the Communist Party of China has been purged of any troublemakers, the Russians feel nonetheless threatened by the Chinese and have been fear-mongering and nurturing Pan-East Slavism to effectively unite the Russian SFSR with the Ukrainian and Belorusian SSRs. My question now is, what should I call this East Slavic entity? Since I want it to mirror the etymology of Yugoslavia (land of the South Slavs), I am considering Vosto(k)slavia. I am not sure whether this name is plausible or correct language-wise, however, so any advice you guys can give me would be appreciated.

P.S. Does anyone know any good alternate histories about a Chinese accession to the Soviet Union? I could really use something to draw inspiration from, but thus far no dice.
 
You're seriously underestimating the sheer size of China here. China even excluding Manchuria has about four times the population of the entirety of the rest of the USSR, and that can't be changed barring a nuclear holocaust which somehow doesn't affect the rest of the world.
 

Tohno

Banned
P.S. Does anyone know any good alternate histories about a Chinese accession to the Soviet Union? I could really use something to draw inspiration from, but thus far no dice.

Russia would absorb Ukraine and Belarus into their state. They would be Russianized and the republic would still have the name 'Russian' in it somehow. Russian nationalists and imperialists historically denied the distinctness of Belarusians and Ukrainians & even in Soviet times fucked with the formal Ukrainian and Belarusian languages to make it more similar to baseline Russian. It would not be like Yugoslav nationalist writers (Serbo-Croatian has less of a difference in 'languages' - less of a need for linguistic assimilation). It would be more analogous to Prussia dominating everybody in the German Empire, only with shittier language policies (there was no suppression of distinct language...er dialects spoken by Austrians or Bavarians for example).

You're seriously underestimating the sheer size of China here. China even excluding Manchuria has about four times the population of the entirety of the rest of the USSR, and that can't be changed barring a nuclear holocaust which somehow doesn't affect the rest of the world.

China gets massacred in the 1967 Sino-Soviet Split & the US does not intervene?
 
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I'm right now trying to wrap my head around what China being annexed to the USSR has to do with the USSR being a Pan-East Slavic state.
 

Tohno

Banned
I'm right now trying to wrap my head around what China being annexed to the USSR has to do with the USSR being a Pan-East Slavic state.

The more non-slavs there are in such a state the more the Slavs feel questioned/outnumbered to they band together. "hey, those russians aren't so bad, but fuck those blackassed Azeris" type shit a Ukrainian might say when in soviet army in OTL when put up with the similarity with Russians as opposed to Central Asians would be STRONGER if in ATL USSR, a Ukrainian guy would be "these Russians aren't too bad, but I hate those fucking Chinks" with a USSR annexing China.
 
Yeah, but a state with more non East Slavs makes it less, not more Pan-East Slavic. This is doubly true when it's because Vostoslavia is annexing lands which don't have East Slavic populations or a historical nationalist claim.
 
Wouldn't the Politburo be compelled to move their headquarters to Beijing and then adopt Chinese ad the USSR's language of interethnic communication? It would become a Chinese, instead of Russian, empire.

IOTL the Russians had a joke that in the year 2000, all will be calm on the Sino-Finnish border.
 

Tohno

Banned
Yeah, but a state with more non East Slavs makes it less, not more Pan-East Slavic. This is doubly true when it's because Vostoslavia is annexing lands which don't have East Slavic populations or a historical nationalist claim.

OP wants a republic which controls all east slavs. aka my RSFSR annexing ukraine/belarus. he did not say about the USSR itself being multiethnic or not.
 
You're seriously underestimating the sheer size of China here. China even excluding Manchuria has about four times the population of the entirety of the rest of the USSR, and that can't be changed barring a nuclear holocaust which somehow doesn't affect the rest of the world.

Hence why I am still conceptualizing. The accession occurs in the mid/late 1930s (PoD relates to a more aggressive Comintern/Soviet foreign policy, with the Soviets intervening in the first stage of the Chinese Civil War) when population numbers were lower, but the Chinese still vastly outnumber the Soviet peoples. I've stripped China of the non-Han areas and am still pondering whether it becomes a single SFSR or multiple SSRs (as in, individual Chinese provinces to be manipulated by Moscow). If that still makes it ASB, I guess I'll have to abandon my vision of a working "Sino-Soviet" Union.

Russia would absorb Ukraine and Belarus into their state. They would be Russianized and the republic would still have the name 'Russian' in it somehow. Russian nationalists and imperialists historically denied the distinctness of Belarusians and Ukrainians & even in Soviet times fucked with the formal Ukrainian and Belarusian languages to make it more similar to baseline Russian. It would not be like Yugoslav nationalist writers (Serbo-Croatian has less of a difference in 'languages' - less of a need for linguistic assimilation). It would be more analogous to Prussia dominating everybody in the German Empire, only with shittier language policies (there was no suppression of distinct language...er dialects spoken by Austrians or Bavarians for example).

Hmm, I didn't know that. Makes sense though, considering the things I sometimes pick up from conversations between Russian and Ukrainian nationalists.

Yeah, but a state with more non East Slavs makes it less, not more Pan-East Slavic. This is doubly true when it's because Vostoslavia is annexing lands which don't have East Slavic populations or a historical nationalist claim.

Like Tohno said, the Slavs band together to counter-balance the political and economic influence the Chinese might be able to exert within the Union. Except for the Chinese joining and the Russian SFSR and the Ukrainian and Belorusian SSRs merging into a single East Slavic/"Greater Russian" SFSR, the rest of the Union remains organized as it is, bar the creation of the Manchurian, Mongolian and Uyghur SSRs.

Wouldn't the Politburo be compelled to move their headquarters to Beijing and then adopt Chinese ad the USSR's language of interethnic communication? It would become a Chinese, instead of Russian, empire.

That was what I was going for as time progresses. Either the ethnicities and cultures homogenize into an internationalist "Soviet" identity, or the Union Sinicises.
 
Hence why I am still conceptualizing. The accession occurs in the mid/late 1930s (PoD relates to a more aggressive Comintern/Soviet foreign policy, with the Soviets intervening in the first stage of the Chinese Civil War) when population numbers were lower, but the Chinese still vastly outnumber the Soviet peoples. I've stripped China of the non-Han areas and am still pondering whether it becomes a single SFSR or multiple SSRs (as in, individual Chinese provinces to be manipulated by Moscow). If that still makes it ASB, I guess I'll have to abandon my vision of a working "Sino-Soviet" Union.
Stalin was very mistrustful of the CPC leaders, so much that he openly expressed support for the quasi-fascist KMT. Certainly by the end of the Long March and the eve of the Japanese invasion, the CPC was in disarray and was finished as a cohesive group.

In any case, since the early 20th century, Manchuria was over 90% Han Chinese and can't be separated from the rest of China indefinitely. And China had existed as a single identity for over two thousand years, compared to only five hundred years for the East Slavs. The former was much, much harder to manipulate and split than the latter.

That was what I was going for as time progresses. Either the ethnicities and cultures homogenize into an internationalist "Soviet" identity, or the Union Sinicises.
But IOTL any attempt to build a "Soviet identity" failed spectacularly, starting when the wealthier and western-looking SSRs (e.g. Baltics, western Ukraine, Georgia) wanted out.
 
Stalin was very mistrustful of the CPC leaders, so much that he openly expressed support for the quasi-fascist KMT. Certainly by the end of the Long March and the eve of the Japanese invasion, the CPC was in disarray and was finished as a cohesive group.

I am aware. My goal is the existence of a Soviet Union which includes China (and other, more digestible bits of Eurasia) and is very serious about spreading socialism worldwide through arms and diplomacy, but a concrete PoD is still lacking. Since that will take a while, I thought I'd focus on the details of this alternate Soviet Union first.

In any case, since the early 20th century, Manchuria was over 90% Han Chinese and can't be separated from the rest of China indefinitely. And China had existed as a single identity for over two thousand years, compared to only five hundred years for the East Slavs. The former was much, much harder to manipulate and split than the latter.
Correct, but the country hasn't exactly come apart in the traditional sense. Except for Taiwan and Tibet, the greater Chinese nation is united under the same banner and ultimate central authority. And with a federation as centralized as the Soviet Union was, the SFSRs and SSRs will all be working towards the same goals. Plus, even under the present day PRC, things like regional discrimination and differing cultures, languages and dialects are already a significant wedge in Han Chinese unity. If it has to come to the creation of provincial SSRs to mitigate Chinese influence in the Union, I'm sure Moscow can find a way to divide the people without the average peasant even being aware of it.

But IOTL any attempt to build a "Soviet identity" failed spectacularly, starting when the wealthier and western-looking SSRs (e.g. Baltics, western Ukraine, Georgia) wanted out.
I'm hoping butterflies will cause the global community (western powers fearing revolution in their colonies, fascists looking to stamp out their leftist arch-nemesis, ...) to put plenty of external stress on the ATL Soviet Union to keep it together for as long as possible. That way, Russia and especially China can grow economically and intellectually and raise up the smaller SSRs with them. And with the Soviet foreign policy already aimed towards achieving global revolution through any means, the domestic elements might then pick up and propagate the idea that creating a completely homogeneous society is the way forward to creating a world without borders and strife. Who knows.
 

Tohno

Banned
But IOTL any attempt to build a "Soviet identity" failed spectacularly, starting when the wealthier and western-looking SSRs (e.g. Baltics, western Ukraine, Georgia) wanted out.

That's because of unresolved ethnic & economic tensions the Politburo did not fix up or even notice until even ethnic Russians were going 'fuck this shit'
 
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