Pakistan, a Major Regional Power

First of all Pakistan needs a strong nation backing it, preferably the USA and Britain aswell.

In our timeline there have ofcourse been a long series of wars between India and Pakistan with Pakistan generally not fairing tooo well although not crushed outright. Now if you have Pakistan crushing Indian forces in 1947 and in following wars you have a strong Pakistan due to the moral of the people. Furthermore due to these successes there is no desire amongst the people of East Pakistan to secede. Now with these boosts we can hopefully see Pakistan modernize and become secular ( along the lines of OTL Turkey ).

Also, an interesting twist, when the USSR invades Afghanistan the USA back the Mujhadeen and Pakistan fights the USSR in outright combat... that would be interesting. After the utter success of Pakistan defeating the Soviets and with Afghanistan safely under Pakistans wing ( Pakistan beggining to make its own sphere of influence ) Pakistan is truly considered a Great power with its people proudly united with its primary allies being the USA, Britain, Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

In the aftermath of the Soviet Union collapsing Pakistan quickly dominates central asia, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Tajikistan quickly come under Pakistans influence, dependant on sea access via Pakistan and cheap arms sales and military training. In the modern day Pakistan makes use of its spare cash investing in east African nations gradually swelling its sphere and funding separatist movements in India which are quickly gaining followers with much of Northern and Eastern India already out of government grip. There is also an intriguing relationship being forged between Pakistan and Indonesia.


Abit of a wank, but thats how I imagine Pakistan rising to being a great power.
 
First of all Pakistan needs a strong nation backing it, preferably the USA and Britain aswell.

In our timeline there have ofcourse been a long series of wars between India and Pakistan with Pakistan generally not fairing tooo well although not crushed outright. Now if you have Pakistan crushing Indian forces in 1947 and in following wars you have a strong Pakistan due to the moral of the people. Furthermore due to these successes there is no desire amongst the people of East Pakistan to secede. Now with these boosts we can hopefully see Pakistan modernize and become secular ( along the lines of OTL Turkey ).

Also, an interesting twist, when the USSR invades Afghanistan the USA back the Mujhadeen and Pakistan fights the USSR in outright combat... that would be interesting. After the utter success of Pakistan defeating the Soviets and with Afghanistan safely under Pakistans wing ( Pakistan beggining to make its own sphere of influence ) Pakistan is truly considered a Great power with its people proudly united with its primary allies being the USA, Britain, Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

In the aftermath of the Soviet Union collapsing Pakistan quickly dominates central asia, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Tajikistan quickly come under Pakistans influence, dependant on sea access via Pakistan and cheap arms sales and military training. In the modern day Pakistan makes use of its spare cash investing in east African nations gradually swelling its sphere and funding separatist movements in India which are quickly gaining followers with much of Northern and Eastern India already out of government grip. There is also an intriguing relationship being forged between Pakistan and Indonesia.


Abit of a wank, but thats how I imagine Pakistan rising to being a great power.

Seems interesting, might make a TL out of it.
 

ninebucks

Banned
A war against Pakistan might actually be a good thing for the USSR. The Afghan war was as damaging as it was because it was a quagmire, Soviet soldiers went in, and body-bags came out, with no convincing reason being provided by the Kremlin as to why this was. But, the Soviets could defeat the Pakistanis in a conventional war, and the Soviet people, viewing such a war as being a) in the interests of self-defence, (the Pakistanis were both indirectly and directly fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan), and b) successful, as the Pakistani military really would not be able to withstand a Soviet battering. The USSR could quietly put the whole Afghan counter-insurgency operation of the back-burner and concentrate on beating the Pakistani military into submission.

Then, if Pakistan looks to be on the verge of defeat, the question becomes 'what will India do?'. And if India acts against Pakistan, you have to the wonder what China will do, and then, what about America?

There is always the possibility that a war like this could escalate into something nuclear.
 
A war against Pakistan might actually be a good thing for the USSR. The Afghan war was as damaging as it was because it was a quagmire, Soviet soldiers went in, and body-bags came out, with no convincing reason being provided by the Kremlin as to why this was. But, the Soviets could defeat the Pakistanis in a conventional war, and the Soviet people, viewing such a war as being a) in the interests of self-defence, (the Pakistanis were both indirectly and directly fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan), and b) successful, as the Pakistani military really would not be able to withstand a Soviet battering. The USSR could quietly put the whole Afghan counter-insurgency operation of the back-burner and concentrate on beating the Pakistani military into submission.

Then, if Pakistan looks to be on the verge of defeat, the question becomes 'what will India do?'. And if India acts against Pakistan, you have to the wonder what China will do, and then, what about America?

There is always the possibility that a war like this could escalate into something nuclear.

Are you serious, USA will provide unlimited support to PAkistan in this case, and if the Soviets manage to eventually succeed, they'll have just inherited a place as equally dangerous as Afghanistan with more people, and will do worse than the Afghan war.
 
A war against Pakistan might actually be a good thing for the USSR. The Afghan war was as damaging as it was because it was a quagmire, Soviet soldiers went in, and body-bags came out, with no convincing reason being provided by the Kremlin as to why this was. But, the Soviets could defeat the Pakistanis in a conventional war, and the Soviet people, viewing such a war as being a) in the interests of self-defence, (the Pakistanis were both indirectly and directly fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan), and b) successful, as the Pakistani military really would not be able to withstand a Soviet battering. The USSR could quietly put the whole Afghan counter-insurgency operation of the back-burner and concentrate on beating the Pakistani military into submission.

Then, if Pakistan looks to be on the verge of defeat, the question becomes 'what will India do?'. And if India acts against Pakistan, you have to the wonder what China will do, and then, what about America?

There is always the possibility that a war like this could escalate into something nuclear.

The 80s, were the prime of the Pakistani Army, and the Pakistanis could hold off the Soviets or at least achieve a Vietnam. But American, Iranian, Turkish, NATO, Israeli, Chinese support would all end up making this Afghanistanx10, especially with a trained army fighting against the Soviets, and a population as large as Russia itself. In Afghanistan the trained army was aiding the Soviets, and they were only fighting rebel guerrillas.
 
Aren't they already? They got nukes, they train a whole lot of officer from a wide range of countries and I think they even send troops from time to time. It makes them at least the Brittish of the area.

The problem is that India is the US of the area, just to damn big.

It would help if Pakistan could fix their economy of course.
 
Then, if Pakistan looks to be on the verge of defeat, the question becomes 'what will India do?'. And if India acts against Pakistan, you have to the wonder what China will do, and then, what about America?

Umm- you know a direct invasion of Pakistan would probably drive India straight out of the Soviet camp. You'd probably actually even see Indian support for Pakistan in that case
 

Ak-84

Banned
Aren't they already? They got nukes, they train a whole lot of officer from a wide range of countries and I think they even send troops from time to time. It makes them at least the Brittish of the area.

The problem is that India is the US of the area, just to damn big.

It would help if Pakistan could fix their economy of course.
Pakistani economy did'nt get into trouble until the late 1990's and was in a boom from 2001 to 2006.

Could you please define majorm regional power? Pakistan has influence and major influence in its area. Often to India's detriment.
 
As many people pointed out, Pakistan is already a major regional (and beyond) power.

As for being more so than they are, I believe I pointed out in another thread that any outside factors such as victory vs X, or getting more support from Y aren't what will make it. The domination of Pakistani politics by Punjabis and Mohajirs is what has always held them back, as these people were caught up in their own feelings of superiority and treated all others as second class citizens. Thanks to them there has been seperatisim in Baluchistan and the NWFP, not to mention what happened in East Pakistan. If you can get all these groups to work togethar, Pakistan will dwarf India, since they did reasonably well anyways.
 

Ak-84

Banned
Well please define "domination". NWFP has not had a seperatist tendancy since the 60's and even then it was a fringe one, todays Government which is reposible for the operation in the area is a regional party.

India has waaaaaaay more seperatism than Pakistan has ever had, yet no one predicts Indias demise.
 
It means that thye majority of leaders in the army and politicians were always Punjabis, and even when they were not, they were usually punjabized mohajirs like Mushy, who tried to sell out the country to the Americans. They always tried to impose their culture on Pashtuns, Balochs, and Bengalis. Just look at how many civilians were killed in 1971.

You're right that separatism isn't so strong in NWFP today, but you can't deny that the government was the source of many of the problems there, especially in Swat. I'd also agree with your comment about India.
 
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