Pagan Britian and Vikings

My question is who would a Pagan Britian react to the Viking Raids and invasions? Would they rally or it fall entirely under Viking Rule? Also at what point would Britian become Christian?
 
For Britain remaining Pagan, you need to keep at least western Romania from being Christianized : the diplomatic, institutional pressure to christianization would be then removed.

Then, admitting Vikings raids aren't butterflied away, the absence of monasteries as wealthy places of thesaurisation would probably modify the Norse raids and possible take-over, making the situation being more close to what existed in Baltic.
 
For Britain remaining Pagan, you need to keep at least western Romania from being Christianized : the diplomatic, institutional pressure to christianization would be then removed.

Then, admitting Vikings raids aren't butterflied away, the absence of monasteries as wealthy places of thesaurisation would probably modify the Norse raids and possible take-over, making the situation being more close to what existed in Baltic.
Okay, so the demands would not be there for them to raid then? Interesting.
 

Dirk

Banned
Okay, so the demands would not be there for them to raid then? Interesting.

This is a very "weird" POD because so many things are different and there are many factors to consider. The Medieval Warm Period still occurs, and so the Scandinavians still have an excess population and the "need" for lands and wealth that they had IOTL. However, Great Britain is not as lucrative a target; as LSCatilina stated there are no more monasteries and thus no easy targets. The primitive castles and advanced burhs of Anglo-Saxon (or Celtic, provided that the Anglo-Saxon Invasion is butterflied) nobles would be much harder to attack than monasteries.

I see the vikings focusing on Francia more and more, or perhaps greatly expanding their expeditions in the Mediterranean (this includes Varangian shenanigans). If that's the only place where concentrated gold is (if Christianity is butterflied from Francia), then that's where they'll go.
 
This is a very "weird" POD because so many things are different and there are many factors to consider. The Medieval Warm Period still occurs, and so the Scandinavians still have an excess population and the "need" for lands and wealth that they had IOTL. However, Great Britain is not as lucrative a target; as LSCatilina stated there are no more monasteries and thus no easy targets. The primitive castles and advanced burhs of Anglo-Saxon (or Celtic, provided that the Anglo-Saxon Invasion is butterflied) nobles would be much harder to attack than monasteries.

I see the vikings focusing on Francia more and more, or perhaps greatly expanding their expeditions in the Mediterranean (this includes Varangian shenanigans). If that's the only place where concentrated gold is (if Christianity is butterflied from Francia), then that's where they'll go.
Thanks I was wondering about that
 
This is a very "weird" POD because so many things are different and there are many factors to consider. The Medieval Warm Period still occurs, and so the Scandinavians still have an excess population and the "need" for lands and wealth that they had IOTL.
The demographic pressure explanation seems to have been quite criticised : not only the Medieval Warm Period probably happened later (in fact, Carolingian period coincides with an agricultural and climatic crisis).

It's less for "lands to take" (scandinavian settlement being limited in numbers and in regions) than overtaking the North Sea while the previous dominant sea power (Frisians) were out due to Carolingian conquests.

As no Christianisation of Britain, at the very least (as I said above, I would think it would need a pagan WRE to begin with, but even not considering that), means less ressources for christianisation of Germany and a really different Francia-Germany rapport.

Eventually this PoD and what it implies (as previous and later events) may as well butterfly Viking invasions, at least in North Sea and Atlantic.
 
I get what you all are saying about the Western Roman Empire not being Christianized, but that seems a bit much. Couldn't the Anglo-Saxons just not convert?
 
I get what you all are saying about the Western Roman Empire not being Christianized, but that seems a bit much. Couldn't the Anglo-Saxons just not convert?

Early medieval Britain wasn't isolated from Europe : the presence of, rather strong, christian entities on the continent provided a diplomatic motivation (and as these diplomatic relations conditioned eventually trade, ressources...)

Furthermore, Christianity allowed germanic kings to obtain more power (summarizing it, germanic kingship is associated to priestom features, limitating its power over its own nobility). Monotheism, providing a model where kings were dominant rulers over their people, as God is on Earth, had a certain power of attraction.

Eventually, it allowed them to rule more easily on Britto-Roman population that was christianized already. It's not that surprising that the first tentatives of christianisation of Anglo-Saxons happened in the eastern kingdoms (where conquests were achieved earlier) : Kent, Essex, East-Anglia.

I think that, for butterflying away a christianisation of AS you need to remove these factors : christianisation of Roman population, christianisation of Romano-German kingdoms.

You would argue that neither Frisians or Saxons converted themselves before the VIIIth century, and after a conquest. But it provided a pretext against them, their rule being unrecognized as a "real" one.
A christian king in Anglo-Saxon Britain could use that against kingdoms that would try to maintain traditional rites.
 
Furthermore, Christianity allowed germanic kings to obtain more power (summarizing it, germanic kingship is associated to priestom features, limitating its power over its own nobility).
Did any try to claim direct divinity for themselves?

Being a god would seem to give more power than merely being approved by one.

Or did they and it turned out like Japan, where despite being a deity the Emperor really didn't have much power.
 
Did any try to claim direct divinity for themselves?

Being a god would seem to give more power than merely being approved by one.

Or did they and it turned out like Japan, where despite being a deity the Emperor really didn't have much power.
Well, pretty much every petty king claimed descent from Woden (or in at least one case, Seaxneat). Ironically, after they christianized, at least some kept the old genealogies, treating Woden as a generic ancestor and just kept going.
 
Did any try to claim direct divinity for themselves?
It would be simply too far from germanic rites : again, the king is more akin of a priest and even if the most prestigious lines can pretend descend from Gods, it's less to pretend to a proximity with divine, than to point the ancienty and prestige of their family.

Being a god would seem to give more power than merely being approved by one.
The thing is, God-King tend to be poor rulers : even pharahos contented themselves being intermediaries between divinities and mortals.
Simply said, divinity not being of this world, it would be taken as a mark of insanity at best;

Passing from priest and responsible of rites to [Divine Seal of approval] king clearly helps, would it be only to impose themselves to their own nobility. It took time, of course, but germano-roman kings were effective ruler of their churches, and the mix between germanic rulership (based on line, prestige of ascendency) and christian features was eventually the most widespread as it gave more power.

(Again, if something happened/didn't happened OTL, it's probably for good reasons)
 

Delvestius

Banned
Well, pretty much every petty king claimed descent from Woden (or in at least one case, Seaxneat). Ironically, after they christianized, at least some kept the old genealogies, treating Woden as a generic ancestor and just kept going.

It really depended on the family. The Ynglings, first royal house of Sweden claimed descent for Freyr.

I just thought of a POD in which all Norse pagans flee to colonies in Britain instead of Iceland :D
 
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