Pacific War Redux

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one of my favorite timelines, look forward to the day when we see more

I thought Blazer makes perfect sense politically in terms of the US and British. Both major bastions are holding out and putting up heroic resistance. Singapore is absolutely vital to British Imperial interests in Asia, and the economic value of Malaya cannot be overstated. An Operation Pedestal type convoy effort makes perfect sense as far as my reading of Churchill is concerned as a political leader. Also the desperate resistance is far more creditable for the British post war in Asia than the collapse that occurred in OTL

Bottom line the British part makes perfect sense

For the American element, that too makes sense. With 4 carriers and a host of escorts including the fast battleships making a serious attempt at relief for Luzon is not crazy. Risky as hell, but not crazy. My only concern in the timeline is where did the US get all the tankers for this effort?

That was the most serious shortfall the USN had in the Pacific in the first couple of years of the war, and a big reason the old battleships were based in California until Operation Galvanic. As to Roosevelt pushing for it, I can see that as well, particularly when you consider that Macarthur is in the US and would have the ear of the Republicans who would push FDR to do something about 'our brave boys in the Philippines" for political reasons.

The fact that it failed also is completely reasonable, and honestly losing 2 carriers instead of just one wouldn't have been unreasonable at all.

MacArthur could do well in China, but his arrogance, certainty that he 'understands the Asiatic mind" and his personal foibles could also just as easily lead him into a catastrophic (from his perspective) scandal

and Chennault is a far more politically savvy and well connected man than anyone MacArthur ever had to deal with in OTL ... but at least maybe Vinegar Joe will likely get a major combat command because of this decision.
 
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one of my favorite timelines, look forward to the day when we see more

I thought Blazer makes perfect sense politically in terms of the US and British. Both major bastions are holding out and putting up heroic resistance. Singapore is absolutely vital to British Imperial interests in Asia, and the economic value of Malaya cannot be overstated. An Operation Pedestal type convoy effort makes perfect sense as far as my reading of Churchill is concerned as a political leader. Also the desperate resistance is far more creditable for the British post war in Asia than the collapse that occurred in OTL

Bottom line the British part makes perfect sense

For the American element, that too makes sense. With 4 carriers and a host of escorts including the fast battleships making a serious attempt at relief for Luzon is not crazy. Risky as hell, but not crazy. My only concern in the timeline is where did the US get all the tankers for this effort?

That was the most serious shortfall the USN had in the Pacific in the first couple of years of the war, and a big reason the old battleships were based in California until Operation Galvanic. As to Roosevelt pushing for it, I can see that as well, particularly when you consider that Macarthur is in the US and would have the ear of the Republicans who would push FDR to do something about 'our brave boys in the Philippines" for political reasons.

Also personal ones. I have little doubt FDR would be no less eager to do something for "Our brave boys in the Philippines" than the rest of the country.
 

abc123

Banned
I thought Blazer makes perfect sense politically in terms of the US

For the American element, that too makes sense. With 4 carriers and a host of escorts including the fast battleships making a serious attempt at relief for Luzon is not crazy. Risky as hell, but not crazy. .

I can even agree about that if they chose southern route, goeing trough San Bernandino pass ( between Samar and Luzon ), where Japan has smaller number of bases and it's farther from Home Islands, possibility for early discovery is smaller, and the distance is same ( about 450 nmi, with even smaller distance by 150 nmi from Guam to San Bernandino than from Guam to north of Luzon) etc...

Also, not attacking Palau seems as something too good to pass, at least with single carrier...

About Britain, I agree that their attack had sense, but they should try to attack in force, not sending single sitting duck carrier...
 
For the American element, that too makes sense. With 4 carriers and a host of escorts including the fast battleships making a serious attempt at relief for Luzon is not crazy. Risky as hell, but not crazy. My only concern in the timeline is where did the US get all the tankers for this effort?
US Navy pre war planning wrote off the Philippines as they felt they needed time to build up to make its way across the Pacific.
Considering the great distance it would pose on the fleet(would likely have to refuel on route), it would play right into the Japanese hands.
And remember that USN only has a few fast battleships and they're only 27 knots which isn't at the speeds of the fleet carriers.

I imagine that the only reason that the USN even let themselves be politically pressured into doing it is that it was meant to be a quick resupply mission and Japan had yet to completely secure the Central Pacific iirc.
 

abc123

Banned
I wonder, did US forces in Bataan still have any airfields left? Maybe US Navy could fly them a few squadrons of fighters, from one of US carriers, when they are in range ( east of Phillipines )?
 
I wonder, did US forces in Bataan still have any airfields left? Maybe US Navy could fly them a few squadrons of fighters, from one of US carriers, when they are in range ( east of Phillipines )?

And fuel and ammo and spare parts come from where? Besides, the US didn't have the modern fighters to spare - which is why they were still shipping Buffaloes out to Wake (and/or Midway, I forget) when the war started.
 

abc123

Banned
And fuel and ammo and spare parts come from where? Besides, the US didn't have the modern fighters to spare - which is why they were still shipping Buffaloes out to Wake (and/or Midway, I forget) when the war started.

Don't they have anything left from Far east Air Force?

Also, ITTL US sent to Midway and Wake F4U Corsairs, not Buffalos... And that's before PJH attack- since them production is surely big enough to send a squadron or two to Bataan... At least, they probably have some P-40s to send them...
 
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I wonder, did US forces in Bataan still have any airfields left? Maybe US Navy could fly them a few squadrons of fighters, from one of US carriers, when they are in range ( east of Phillipines )?

On Battan. At least one unpaved airstrip. Part of the dispersal fields under construction. Across the other islands there were similar airstrips, but on Mindanao there was a paved airfield, capable of handling the B17. It was set up at the time as a dispersal field with some support material. When Battan surrendered there were only US & Phillipino soldiers on Mindanao.

I imagine that the only reason that the USN even let themselves be politically pressured into doing it is that it was meant to be a quick resupply mission and Japan had yet to completely secure the Central Pacific iirc.

A examination of what Japan controled n the Central Pacific on 6 Dec 1941 should show how practical that might be.

Don't they have anything left from Far east Air Force?

After the initial air attack the remaining aircraft were attirtioned away over the next few months. When the US/Phillipino ground forces retreated to Battan the remnant aircraft moved to Mindanao. A few of the long range aircraft like a handful of B17s made it to Australia. I think all the Bolos were lost on Luzon as were the Navy aircraft and the Army single engine planes.
 

abc123

Banned
After the initial air attack the remaining aircraft were attirtioned away over the next few months. When the US/Phillipino ground forces retreated to Battan the remnant aircraft moved to Mindanao. A few of the long range aircraft like a handful of B17s made it to Australia. I think all the Bolos were lost on Luzon as were the Navy aircraft and the Army single engine planes.

I mostly meant on munitions and spare parts ( and on mainteinance personell )...
 

CalBear

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And fuel and ammo and spare parts come from where? Besides, the US didn't have the modern fighters to spare - which is why they were still shipping Buffaloes out to Wake (and/or Midway, I forget) when the war started.

Basis of this T/L is that the U.S. shook into gear as soon as the 2 Ocean Navy Act passed and went full bore, double time in the yards, etc. B-17E, P-38, F4U (not deck certified), and early model P-47 are available in limited number.
 
Basis of this T/L is that the U.S. shook into gear as soon as the 2 Ocean Navy Act passed and went full bore, double time in the yards, etc. B-17E, P-38, F4U (not deck certified), and early model P-47 are available in limited number.

Looking forward to the redux of the redux. :p

Yours and Fearless Leader's TLs are some of the best WWII TLs out there.
 
I just finished reading the timeline. Awesome read, Cal Bear

Excuse me if these couple of questions have been asked.

1.) What is the fate of the USS Langley?

Was she attacked as OTL from Perth to Java to deliver P-40's? If she is still alive, she might be a good source to ferry planes around the Pacific or Atlantic. Heck, maybe her deck can be lengthened to fly P-40's off of. In this capacity, she would be the Pacific version of the Ranger in the Atlantic to deliver planes from the USA to needed posts. It would be better to have her in safer waters around Hawaii to Wake to Midway.

2.) Saipan is screwed as it looks like it will be the target for the first marine division to invade.

3.) Will the USS Essex do a Doolittle raid? Will another carrier do the doolittle raid? Will there even be a Doolittle raid?

4.) It will be interesting to see if the Philippines can hold out a month longer than OTL.
 
So with the Allies in a better position than OTL with possession of Guam and Tinian and southern Saipan neutralized and pointing towards it being invaded next in the June/July time frame

The Gilbert's, Marshall's, and Caroline's might be sidestepped all together. I can also see the Makin Island raid be beefed up a little, where Carlson's raiders intend to stay on Makin and build up a fighter base. US places bombers on Howland and pounds Tarawa if the Japanese build up defenses.

Also with a little more success, Army units that were OTL in the Pacific for Guadalcanal, Operation Cartwheel, taking back New Guinea and ultimately landing on the Philippines might be redirected to Europe ITTL. May be better served in Italy or Balkans.

Looks like next steps in Pacific campaign would be Saipan followed by Iwo Jima or Okinawa in 1943. At either of these two places, the marines have a baptism by fire similar to what Tarawa OTL was.

On the whole, Pacific War may be over by time that nuclear bomb is ready. Japan may be so decimated by Allied bombing and the loss of the empire that the emperor surrenders in early August before bombs are dropped.

Next carrier battle would be for Saipan, this time though the US would have more effective ground based aircraft working with the Naval aircraft to eliminate both an IJN carrier threat, cover landing ships, and neutralize rest of Saipan.
 
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