Overrated and Underrated Superpowers?
- Thread starter Faeelin
- Start date
Obviously, Britain tends to get an automatic assumption of superpower status for some reason. So does Japan.
On the other hand, Italy certainly had potential in spades, but nobody ever seems to believe that an Italian army is good for anything other than the triumphal march from Aida.
On the other hand, Italy certainly had potential in spades, but nobody ever seems to believe that an Italian army is good for anything other than the triumphal march from Aida.
Valdemar II
Banned
I tend to think that Austria is highly underrated, beetween 1720-1792 and 1812-1866 it was one of the greatest european power, and succes in the War of the Bavarian Succession or against the French in 1792-1804 would have ended up with them as the dominating power of Europe for decades afterward.
The Sandman
Banned
The Ottomans. Who swing both ways, really.
Oman had interesting possibilities.
Also, a different German unification doesn't get brought up much. If Germany had been unified by, say, Bavaria, it would still have become a Great Power, but might have had a different set of priorities and tactics than the Prussians did.
Scotland.
Korea.
Oman had interesting possibilities.
Also, a different German unification doesn't get brought up much. If Germany had been unified by, say, Bavaria, it would still have become a Great Power, but might have had a different set of priorities and tactics than the Prussians did.
Scotland.
Korea.
WWII tunnel vision.
Yeah, I have a feeling that if Italy managed to unit any time much before the Industrial Revolution, it would shoot up to great power status immediately, at least...
The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth during its golden age, for its time it was a very progressive nation with freedom of religion, abolishment of serfdom, the largest population of educated people in Europe, and possible the finest armies of its time. Which if things happened differently it could have lasted well into the 19th century maybe even the 20th century. Would that be a great WW1 with the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth locked into a titanic battle with the Ottomans and their airships.
Faeelin
Banned
I dunno; Italy, after all, is trapped in the Mediterranean.
Should Germany be included? If so, which way?
Shouldn't this be in the pre-1900 forum? We've already had the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth show up. If we have PODs going back to the Renaissance, we certainly could get, say, the house of Viscondi-Habsburg, rulers of Italy, Austria, most of the Balkans, N. Africa, Switzerland....
Germany? Well, if we're talking post-1900 PODs, _definitely_ overrated.
Oman? Scotland? We're talking potential _superpowers_ : we're dealing with a pretty small population base here. (OTOH, Brazil - a Portugese [1] colony - often shows up in AH as a superpower. Where can we find a colony for the Scots where they can grow enough to offset their numerical disadvantage?)
Bruce
[1] Portugal still has nearly 3 times Scotland's population in 1600, tho'.
Faeelin
Banned
I was thinking a cut off point around 1800; maybe 1700, but since it covers both periods I thought I'd put it here.
What about Russia? Maybe not DoD's strange "Not really Russian if we have Manchuria and Turkey" Russia, but something similar.
France, I think, gets underrated.
England. Oh, how the English will suffer under their Scottish overlords! Mwahaha!
I mean. Errm. Yea, I agree.
Faeelin
Banned
Well, it can't get to America unless it passes through Gibraltar, no? Which is controlled by *Spain. And the Suez Canal, alas, seems unlikely.
I find your insistence on a great power needing an overseas colonial empire strange. Look at Russia. Italy's most likely course of action, after being completely united, would be to create a Mediterranean based Empire, perhaps in an attempt to recreate the Roman Empire (reach back into the past to see your glorious future)
( and if your postulating a 'Superpower', control of Gibraltar or Egypt shouldn't be out of the question,anyway)
Argentina has lack-of-population problem as above,
at any potential PoD, I guess.
at any potential PoD, I guess.
Or better still Mexico. If it controlled the areas of America that there "stolen from it", ie Texas, California, Arizona, etc as well as overrunning Central America during the expulsion of the Spanish by the Nationalists. It could then roll on down the Andes as far south as Chile. That would get it most of the resources as well as a large population it would need to become a superpower. A mix of anti-Yankee (or Brazilian) nationalism plus the use of the Spanish language would keep it tied together.
Well, with a ton of divergence, and an early PoD,
we might have seen a superpower Boer state.
At least that implies that they had
- built a single state early and maintained their independence,
- been more ambitious about their industrial prosperity,
- kept closer relations to various European countries
and, possibly, the USA.
Then they would have needed a lot of time,
to prosper economically and demoscopically.
So better start working early on the above.
But after all, around 1700 Boer opportunities do not look so much different for those of the 13 colonies ...
we might have seen a superpower Boer state.
At least that implies that they had
- built a single state early and maintained their independence,
- been more ambitious about their industrial prosperity,
- kept closer relations to various European countries
and, possibly, the USA.
Then they would have needed a lot of time,
to prosper economically and demoscopically.
So better start working early on the above.
But after all, around 1700 Boer opportunities do not look so much different for those of the 13 colonies ...
Demographics, raw materials, easy access to European know-how....frankly, for PODs after 1800, I'd say Russia is a superpower or a near-superpower in more TLs than not. (It's often a Big Blob on AH maps, but often an oddly non-influencial one).
I'd agree: usually, in AH, it's Napoleon victorious or nothing. Even in TL's where the UK and France unify, it's usually the British tail that ends up wagging the French dog...
Bruce