Outline for an African Superpower

Hawkeye,
o in fact, Carthage had already conquered Gaullish Spain, so I'm guessing they'd just continue that process.

o Technological changes could result from Carthage's less military focus, what differences there'd be between Rome's conquests and Carthage's, and how long the Carthaginian constitution would've lasted before Caesar-like hacking.

o Carthage was in Africa. That's the thread goal, right? They were the real thing - an African superpower. They were at similar leading point as the UN Big 5 back in WWII.
 
Hawkeye,
o in fact, Carthage had already conquered Gaullish Spain, so I'm guessing they'd just continue that process.
Carthage only controlled southern Iberia and didn't have much interest in expanding further. In lamest terms, the Carthaginians were more like the Dutch while the Romans were more like Britain... Or maybe Russia would be a better analogy.

o Technological changes could result from Carthage's less military focus, what differences there'd be between Rome's conquests and Carthage's, and how long the Carthaginian constitution would've lasted before Caesar-like hacking.
While war can be a reason for technological advancement it can also be achieved through other means. Plus, the Celts in Gaul will probably have many conflicts of their own.

o Carthage was in Africa. That's the thread goal, right? They were the real thing - an African superpower. They were at similar leading point as the UN Big 5 back in WWII.
I thought the goal of the thread was to create a modern African Superpower. Unless you mean that Carthage survives to the modern day and somehow remains powerful then the only way to achieve that would be through the intervention of flying nocturnal mammals from space.
 
what do you think of this

in this timeline i wish to create a situation where th protestants are brutaly defeated in the religious war in europe but a large number of them get to africa to settle down and build a new empire.
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Makty

Banned
There might had been hope had Botha's plan for Canton Democracy (think Switzerland) succeeded in South Africa
 
I too have been thinking about this, because the board deserves some sort of Africa-wank! The only problem with my scenario is it makes the USA a nastier place...

In 1831, a relatively anonymous slave named Nat Turner dies, and thus there is no major slave revolt. Without this added fear of slaves, Virginia is more open to the emancipation movement, and by the late 1830's, slavery is banned in Virginia. As time goes by, the split between the North and the South is widened, with more and more pressure mounting on the South to relinquish slavery. Meanwhile, many in the North are turning to Liberia as a solution to the perceived problem of blacks living among them, Liberia being a new home for the blacks in Africa. By the late 1840's the issue of slavery in the South is brought to a boil when Abraham Lincoln* is elected President of the USA, and the Southern States threaten to succeed. However, they are in a far weaker position without Virginia, and therefore more willing to accept Abe Lincoln compromise to buy the freedom the the remaining slaves. By the mid-1850's, slavery is all but gone in the South.

However, this doesn't mean the South has become a utopia for blacks. With no reconstruction, blacks are still terribly discriminated in the South, leading to an exodus of the Blacks to out west, and the North. This is met with mixed reactions; many Northerners were against slavery, but still deeply racists. On the other hand, there are good hearted people, black and white, who open schools to educate the newly freed slaves, who are helped by an already emerging class of educated blacks that came out of the emancipation of Virginia and other 'border' states. Nevertheless, in many areas, the racists feeling prevails, and more and more neighborhoods forbid blacks. In many well-off areas, a more organized solution is found: paying for a trip for blacks to Liberia. In some ares in the deep South, in order to make whites still a large majority, they pass laws requiring blacks to leave for Liberia. Furthermore, a militant black nationalist movement begins, feeling that if the whites won't accept them, they can and will leave for their own nation. This leads to an exodus of educated blacks to Liberia. By the 1860's, the population of Liberia has increased dramatically, with an emerging intellectual class.

While many states and localities are passing laws discriminating against blacks, the new American President decides to take the middle raod as to not upset either party, the racists and the not-racists, by massively funding Liberia. Buy 1870, America faced crisis---war with France over the attempted colonization in Mexico.(Mexi-American war went as OTL) Despite the thinking that America would lose, the military modernization that America undertook after the Oregon Affair with Britain was overwhelmingly successful, and the French leader, facing a uniting German state on his Eastern border, decided a prolonged war with the USA was a bad idea. In 1875, the USA was invited to the Congress of Hamburg to participate in the scramble for Africa by Germany, who was much closer to the USA than IOTL due to their mutual enemy, France. The USA was able to secure large parts of West Africa in order for Liberia to expand.

After a massive population boom and land grab, Liberia experienced a golden age. With their policy of 'assimilation' working moderately well on the natives, Liberia experienced massive growth. However, their was a large amount of tension with their neighbors, French West Africa, due to the treatment of Africans in those colonies. This was exacerbated by French militarism; many French newspapers called for the annexation of Liberia. In 1885, the idea of a "Pan-African Nation" movement was started in Monrovia. However, following further Liberian militarization and some industrialization(aided not in small part by the USA and Germany) the 'Pan-African Nation' became 'Pan-African Empire'.

Ok, I am going to stop this here and ask for input. I think this is plausible for making a successful African nation, but African superpower? Perhaps in the alternate World War One, Liberia conquers French West Africa, and expands, experiencing more growth after the input of oil money. Then, a "Pan-African Movement' is acted upon after Liberia enters an alliance with.....Ethipoia, the Ottoman Empire, and S. Africa? By 1950, far more of Africa is controlled by successful nation states, and a NATO/EU like organization is formed.

Edit: More to work with. Perhaps Russia wins in an alternate 1870's war with the Ottomans and get the straits opened. Then, they make a deal with Ethiopia, giving money in exchange for basing rights. The Ottomans, cut off from Europe, turn to Africa. This could create a much more developed North and East Africa than OTL.

*Or some other guy. I don't know politicians of this era.
 
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I was thinking recently of Kenya becoming an economic superpower. What got me started was TLs on the new OTL about the Soviet Union surviving. The way I saw this as possible was using the Chinese model: free enterprise and a repressive government. I thought like China it would prosper. Since there would be no Russia, you could not have the BRIC countries- tSO in my TL the new rising econmies would be Brazil, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, India, China and Kenya or the BUICK countries.
 

terence

Banned
I don't think a whit ruled south africa is entirely necessary to make an african super power.

I don't know much about 20th century african politics. But consider the fact that Mobuto embezzeled 5 billion dollars from his own country. Now imagine if that money had been kept in the Congo's economy. WI the congo had been able to act mor like south korea or taiwan after decolonization?

Africa has huge mineral, agricultural, and labor wealth. If more honest government had been in charge if not a super power but maybe a few tiger (or lion) economies could exist.

To have any hope of credibility it would have to be Arab/European/ East Asian/ South Asian led. Sub-Saharan indigenous Africans have never managed to build a substantial civilsation. Benin, Lunda, Kongo and all the others were not much different to modern postcolonial African countries with exploitation of their own and neighboring people for the benefit of the rulers. There's many reasons why no capitalist class developed before, during or after the colonial period, why democratic or even participatory political systems didn't develop--just assume they didn't and couldn't.
 
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