Our Soviet Union (USSR)

[panpiotr]

I think Hitler would still Anti-Semitic but would be limited on what he does since the NSDAP/Nazi will have left leaning and maybe sane members still being around.

They wanted Lebensraum and Ostsiedlung as they alled it for their ethnic nationalist and imperialist pan-German ideals, if that is not as pronounced TTL and Germany is allready part of a free trade zone giving them free access to these resources and lands by peaceful means of their workers brothers in Russia I can see them remain inside our agreement TTL and not focus on colonizing Eastern Europe (or many other places outright any longer).

Yeah, same could be possible in a more left-leaning Germany.

Both of you present a very interesting idea - ideologicall hybrid Hitler, or left-wing Hitler - combining his core beliefs with TTL political reality.

This is only my speculation, but I think the core principles of Hilters policy would remaim almost the same, so agressive foreign policy, rearment etc. Obviously, Hitler will pursue reunification of all German and German-speaking lands - so we may witness annexation of lands from Poland, Czechoslovakia, Lithuania, Denmark, France, Belgium, Switzerland, Italy, Yugoslavia), also annexation of other germanic states such as Netherlands, Sweden, Norway.

All this would be done not only because of ideological reasons, but also to increase a demographic, industrial and military potential of Germany in relation to USSR. I think that Hitler will give up his dream of conquesting the East, and focus on expansion in other aread in Europe, maybe even we can see Germany regaining back lost colonies.

As for policy with USSR - left wing Hitler will remain our ally - but only ally of convinience- he doesnt want to be a junior partner to Rykov and rising Soviet superpower. So Hitlers main enemies will be UK, France and Italy. But as soon as war between Germany/USSR and France/Italy/UK is finished we may see TTL Sino-Soviet split, but it would be a Cold war in Europe between 2 new superpowers - Germany and USSR.

 

[Red Angel]

They wanted Lebensraum and Ostsiedlung as they alled it for their ethnic nationalist and imperialist pan-German ideals, if that is not as pronounced TTL and Germany is allready part of a free trade zone giving them free access to these resources and lands by peaceful means of their workers brothers in Russia I can see them remain inside our agreement TTL and not focus on colonizing Eastern Europe (or many other places outright any longer).

Yeah, same could be possible in a more left-leaning Germany.

True but Hitler and the Nazi (at least the right-leaning members) will want more, which we may need to support the left-leaning Nazis to split and join the socialists/communists or form their own leftist party.

Defiently, when you read Mein Kampf completely as we had to do for school back in the day you know that ship had sailed long ago, even in his Munich and Vienna times allready. Still how much pronounced that Anti-Semitism is and how much it spills over into simply bias, or outright laws and other racist radical actions is a whole other debate, especialy if Hitler and those thinking like him like Himmler (joined 1923 into the party, int othe SS 1925), Heidrich (joined both party and SS in 1931) and others either never join this version of the NSDAP, or never becoem as prominent and influential members inside of it.

They may form their own fascist/nationalist party and attempt to control the Reichstag.

Both of you present a very interesting idea - ideologicall hybrid Hitler, or left-wing Hitler - combining his core beliefs with TTL political reality.

This is only my speculation, but I think the core principles of Hilters policy would remaim almost the same, so agressive foreign policy, rearment etc. Obviously, Hitler will pursue reunification of all German and German-speaking lands - so we may witness annexation of lands from Poland, Czechoslovakia, Lithuania, Denmark, France, Belgium, Switzerland, Italy, Yugoslavia), also annexation of other germanic states such as Netherlands, Sweden, Norway.

All this would be done not only because of ideological reasons, but also to increase a demographic, industrial and military potential of Germany in relation to USSR. I think that Hitler will give up his dream of conquesting the East, and focus on expansion in other aread in Europe, maybe even we can see Germany regaining back lost colonies.

As for policy with USSR - left wing Hitler will remain our ally - but only ally of convinience- he doesnt want to be a junior partner to Rykov and rising Soviet superpower. So Hitlers main enemies will be UK, France and Italy. But as soon as war between Germany/USSSR and France/Italy/UK is finished we may see TTL Sino-Soviet split, but it would be a Cold war in Europe between 2 new superpowers - Germany and USSR.

I don't think we'll stay allied with Hitler's Germany once he starts to consolidating his power over Germany so we'll probably continue secretly supporting the leftists in case he tries something.

 

[panpiotr]

True but Hitler and the Nazi (at least the right-leaning members) will want more, which we may need to support the left-leaning Nazis to split and join the socialists/communists or form their own leftist party.

They may form their own fascist/nationalist party and attempt to control the Reichstag.

I don't think we'll stay allied with Hitler's Germany once he starts to consolidating his power over Germany so we'll probably continue secretly supporting the leftists in case he tries something.

Then I hope this wont happen, as our alliance with Germany is cornerstone of our foreign policy. Only with Germany on our side USSR has a chance to defeat the West in future battle in Euroasia.

USSR has a chance to defeat Franco-British alliance on its own, but USA will always join war on their side to prevent Soviet domination in Europe. Unfortunately, we must be realistic and realize that USSR no matter how developed wont be able to take the West on its own in war of attrition, because USA is a industrial and economic superpower, safe behind 2 oceans, while we will be fighting right at our doorstep.

 

[Red Angel]

Then I hope this wont happen, as our alliance with Germany is cornerstone of our foreign policy. Only with Germany on our side USSR has a chance to defeat the West in future battle in Euroasia.

USSR has a chance to defeat Franco-British alliance on its own, but USA will always join war on their side to prevent Soviet domination in Europe. Unfortunately, we must be realistic and realize that USSR no matter how developed wont be able to take the West on its own in war of attrition, because USA is a industrial and economic superpower, safe behind 2 oceans, while we will be fighting right at our doorstep.

True, maybe if we cause an accident on the right leaning Nazi members so they stay* our allies, I believe that France may become nationalist *since Germany will be more left-leaning and will cause a rise of anti-Soviet and increase the already anti-German sentiment.

 

[panpiotr]

@CountofDooku as there was no other propositions, could we vote on Soviet-German Naval Agreement?

 

[CountofDooku]

Sure panpiotr.

The Soviet-German Naval Agreement:
A) Shared training and ideas.
B) Shared shipbuilding and ship planning, including secretly aiding the Germans reamr their Navy in our Baltic dockyards/ harbors.
C) Only bare minimum overall cooperation.
D) Such a agreement is not needed.

 

[Analytical Engine]

Sure panpiotr.

The Soviet-German Naval Agreement:
A) Shared training and ideas.
B) Shared shipbuilding and ship planning, including secretly aiding the Germans reamr their Navy in our Baltic dockyards/ harbors.
C) Only bare minimum overall cooperation.
D) Such a agreement is not needed.

A) but subject to oversight. We can't have all our secrets leaking to Germany via "exchange officers".

 

[panpiotr]

Sure panpiotr.

The Soviet-German Naval Agreement:
A) Shared training and ideas.
B) Shared shipbuilding and ship planning, including secretly aiding the Germans reamr their Navy in our Baltic dockyards/ harbors.
C) Only bare minimum overall cooperation.
D) Such a agreement is not needed.

A) but add also a clause that Soviet navy may use German ports, and German navy may use Soviet ports

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

A) sounds like the best option, we do obligation towards our ally without revealing much of our own secrets

 

[Phoenix19489]

A) but subject to oversight. We can't have all our secrets leaking to Germany via "exchange officers".

 

[Icee]

B) Shared shipbuilding and ship planning, including secretly aiding the Germans reamr their Navy in our Baltic dockyards/ harbors.
Ofc whit add on of having our own secret planning and building said ships this could help making one imperial power to fight other while we will benefit from said conflict!
As supposedly comrade Lenin once said capitalist will sell us rope to hand our self whit,so it best to fight fire whit fire and sell back said rope to capitalist powers

 

[thenextgui]

Sure panpiotr.

The Soviet-German Naval Agreement:
A) Shared training and ideas.
B) Shared shipbuilding and ship planning, including secretly aiding the Germans reamr their Navy in our Baltic dockyards/ harbors.
C) Only bare minimum overall cooperation.
D) Such a agreement is not needed.

A. We can find common cause with Germany against the victorious powers of the Great War. However, I find issue with B putting our sovereignty at risk.

 

[dunHozzie]

B, because the German shipbuilding is lightyears ahead of ours. For every 2 of theirs we build one of our own (we still don't have much money). Leak the fact we are to the Brits in return for more machine tools.

 

[Dude-a-Buck]

A) with a agreement to use each other's ports.

 

[Red Angel]

A + B: We could do both secretly as to not raise suspicion with Britain, France, Japan, and America, maybe we bring China into the agreement.

 

[souvikkundu25140017]

B

 

[souvikkundu25140017]

If soviet is so interested in increasing population why not use propaganda to target minorities from capitalist countries or their colonies?

 

[Red Angel]

If soviet is so interested in increasing population why not use propaganda to target minorities from capitalist countries or their colonies?

While a good idea but we shouldn't use the propaganda machine for everything since it'll cause problems with our fragile relationship with the capitalist's nation and their colonies... and we're already gaining immigrants with the Hebrew SSR and being a safe haven for the left-leaning foreigners anyways.

 

[souvikkundu25140017]

While a good idea but we shouldn't use the propaganda machine for everything since it'll cause problems with our fragile relationship with the capitalist's nation and their colonies... and we're already gaining immigrants with the Hebrew SSR and being a safe haven for the left-leaning foreigners anyways.

They do not like their minorities. They may consider using union as release valve for them. With more of agitating minorities removed from their core domain more they will able to homogenize using their own people.

 

[Red Angel]

They do not like their minorities. They may consider using union as release valve for them. With more of agitating minorities removed from their core domain more they will able to homogenize using their own people.

True since the US' industries relies on the minorities so that would help slow down it's economy and maybe cause the Great Depression happen early ITTL.