Our Soviet Union (USSR)
- Thread starter CountofDooku
- Start date
Way not make it Stargate/Babylon 5(star gate whit Babylon station)A giant un like station where galactic power met up to decide fate of galaxy i guessAnd one SCIFI UN one (United Nations of Terra/ Tau'ri) set in the Stargate Universe post-Goa'uld as sort of UN version, just remembered that one too ^^
Also can't wait to write a new chapter here this weekend
The Stargate Amun Station AU/TL allready covers that idea ;DWay not make it Stargate/Babylon 5(star gate whit Babylon station)A giant un like station where galactic power met up to decide fate of galaxy i guess
Will be there a part dedicated to future savior of China - John Xina?Tomorrow first thing in the new year, a little China update:
Wangism
Wangism
A hero of the Xinhai Revolution, Wang Jingwei actively opposed the Qing Government and 1911 and gained fame as a public speaker for Chinese nationalism, who plotted to assassinate rgent Prince Chun, for which he would remain in jail from 1910 to the Wuchang Uprising in 1911, becoming a national hero, after being freed. Beginning with the Revolution, Wang opposed Western Imperialism and Colonialism in China. By 1920 Wang held posts in the Sun Yat-sen's Revolutionary Government in Guangzhou and became a member od Sun’s most inner circle and would even travel with him outside of Kuomintang (KMT) held territory. During this time Chiang Kai-shek managed to take control of the army and even altered Sun’s will to take over immediately after Sun’s death in 1925, but the Soviet Union support for Wang stabilized his position as leader of the left-KMT. Because of that Communist and Socialist remained in the KMTand strengthened their influence in Guangdon and in general, as the left wing of the KMT, was sympathetic to communists and communism, but in opposition to Chiang, who became a main rival for Wang and leader of the Right-KMT. Wang’s left-leaning KMT outright adopted a policy of cooperating with the Chinese communists in Wuhan, the Chinese Communist Party. With the capture of Shanghai in 1927 the KMT moved the capital to Nanjing, while Wang formed a coalition and collaboration with leading communists, among them especial Mao Zedong, Chen Duxiu, and Borodin, adopting a land reform policy for the KMT alongside them. Wang’s Wuhan Nationalist KMT Government, also known as Wuhan Government, Wuhan Regime, or Hankow Government dominated the Left-Wing of the KMT, firs led by Eugen Chen, was by now completely under control of Wang Jingwei. The differences between the Left-KMT and the Right-KMT, also known as the Wuhan-Nanjing Split further escalated during the planning of the Norther Expedition against the Northern Warlords.
Fearful that afterwards Chiang might use the National Revolutionary Army (NRA) as their commander-in-chief to eliminate internal enemies and rivals as well, Wang and the Warlords allied to his Left-Wing KMT, or simply opposed to Chiang and his Right-Wing KMT prepared their own actiongs against them with the aid of their own formed Wuhan Government and soon both sides started Purges against one another before the Northern Expedition, to End this separation and to unify the KMT under themselves. With the so called Nanking Massacre and Shanghai Massacre, the Right-Wing KMT got severely weakened and Left-KMT, alongside the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) further prepared their own operatonsm fully aware that most likely the Right-KMT and the other Warlords would not be so easily defeated. Right-Wing KMT elements however were severely weakened from this first strike and the Left Chinese Nationalist KMP Party while expelling to hardcore Communism and Nationalists from their rank, to form something new and own, calling for a full purge of all opposing political groups and individuals, before they, like Chiang could plot against them. As a result of that the Guangzhou Clique group and the CCP completely rallied being Wang, believing claims of Chiang having planned a Purge of his own against them. Within weeks the purges and attacks against one another would escalate to full-out open warfare between the Left-KMT and Right-KMT groups and preventing their prepared KMT offenses north, or major urban offensive and ending the Chinese United Front and internal KMT Unity alike. Together with his allied Feng Yuxiang and Yan Xishan, Wang formed a new central government in opposition to Chiang, drafted a new constitution and served as Prime Minister, later President, first in aid of Yan’s government, later his own. His anti-Chiang Coalition consisted of Wang Jingwei Wangist Wuhan Government, closely aligned and allied Warlords opposing the Nanking KMT, Zhili Clique and Fengtiang Clique alike, mainly the Guominjun, Shanxi Clique (Yan Xishan), Guangxi Clique and others, under leadership of Wang Jingwei, Yan Xishan, Feng Yuxiang, Li Zongren, Bai Chongxi, Fu Zuoyi, Zhang Fakui, Tang Shengzhi and others.
With combined forces, they would be conquering Beijing and Nanjing for the KMT-CCP, United Front following Central Government and the Nationalist Revolutionary Army (NRA), against the Nanjing Right-KMT Nationalist Government under Chiang Kai-shek and the Zhili Clique and Fengtian Clique (also known as the Beiyang Government), purging Communists, Nationalists, Zhili and Fengtian alike in the so called Eastern Expedition, or Lower Yangtze Plains War, leading to the political split between Left-Wing KMT and Right-Wing KMT. With their victory, between 1931 and 1932, the Central Government would remain victorious over the regime of Chiang and others in their victories in the Battle of Beiyang, Battle of Nanjing and Battle of Shanghai. Surviving, Chiang would flee overseas to Europe, were he would become an honored guest of Italy and Benito Mussolini, as well as Germany and Adolf Hitler, who paraded him around as the legitimate right-wing Fascist and Nationalist KMT and Chinese leader, while Wang began a civil war against remnants of the Communists and Nationalists alike in what he now called the Pacification of the Warlords and China. Wang was uncertain in China could withstand the single attack of a foreign outside power, like Britain, France, Soviet Union, or Japan at this time and in fear of such dominance and influence also opposed foreign outside alliances, even more so with nations that had occupied and stolen rightfully Chinese lands and territories. Despite his opposition to growing Japanese influence, like in Southern Manchuria however, Wang also opposed other foreign influence replacing it and any foreign influence in China in general and saw the White Devilish Powers (Soviet Union, Britain and the United States) as much more greater dangers then Japan, who were Asian Brothers with a similar history and fate then China). To keep China independent a massive modernization and education program was needed Chiang believed. Despite all this Wang was a realist, ready to ally with the Soviet Union if that was what would keep China independent, especial as the Soviet Union Socialist and Communist groups had so greatly supported him during the Chinese Revolutions and Chinese Civil War.
As a result of this Wang would approach the Soviet Union and Japan alike, hoping to sign a so called Anti-Colonial, or Anti-Imperial pact against the ambitions and holdings of other American and European Powers in Asia. Remnants of the Right-Wing KMT meanwhile organized themselves as a rebellion and guerrilla alongside structural lines of European Fascists and Nationalists alike. If both the Soviet Union and Japan could side with his China, so believed Wang, China could withstand any Western Imperialist Colonial Power. At the same time Wang also met with Left-KMT inspired anti-colonial figures in Hanoi, French Indochina, to voice his support for pan-Asian anti-Colonialism, both in a move to look better in the eyes of the Soviet Union and the Japanese Empire alike. He explained his China would oppose Fascism and Western Imperialism alike and that soon foreign power exterritoriality in China would End and China would retake what was rightfully his. His Three New principles were Pan-Asianism, anti-Colonialism and opposition to Chiang. Under him luxuries would not be so sparse anymore and rebuilding and opening up China to the international market began anew. Some shortcomings and restrictions created a black market that Wang tried to eliminate with his Tewu, a secret intelligence agency and military police force. His control mainly held the coast, rivers, railways and major cities, while the south, west and north was more controlled by various degrees of allied, but more so independent warlords, as well as enemy guerrilla movements and groups for now. His hipe to Unify all Races of China under one Flag resulted in Wang being seen as a traitor by Fascist and Nationalist Han Chinese supporters. His new education and land reforms aimed to create a workforce for the farms, mines and industries alike to modernize China. To many modern Chinese he became the Father of a new China, a liberator from foreign American and European, as well as Han Colonialism and Imperialism alike, from Fascism and Nationalism. Seen as the true heir of Sun Yat-Sen and the great mediator between the Left-KMT and the CCP for a United Central Government.
A hero of the Xinhai Revolution, Wang Jingwei actively opposed the Qing Government and 1911 and gained fame as a public speaker for Chinese nationalism, who plotted to assassinate rgent Prince Chun, for which he would remain in jail from 1910 to the Wuchang Uprising in 1911, becoming a national hero, after being freed. Beginning with the Revolution, Wang opposed Western Imperialism and Colonialism in China. By 1920 Wang held posts in the Sun Yat-sen's Revolutionary Government in Guangzhou and became a member od Sun’s most inner circle and would even travel with him outside of Kuomintang (KMT) held territory. During this time Chiang Kai-shek managed to take control of the army and even altered Sun’s will to take over immediately after Sun’s death in 1925, but the Soviet Union support for Wang stabilized his position as leader of the left-KMT. Because of that Communist and Socialist remained in the KMTand strengthened their influence in Guangdon and in general, as the left wing of the KMT, was sympathetic to communists and communism, but in opposition to Chiang, who became a main rival for Wang and leader of the Right-KMT. Wang’s left-leaning KMT outright adopted a policy of cooperating with the Chinese communists in Wuhan, the Chinese Communist Party. With the capture of Shanghai in 1927 the KMT moved the capital to Nanjing, while Wang formed a coalition and collaboration with leading communists, among them especial Mao Zedong, Chen Duxiu, and Borodin, adopting a land reform policy for the KMT alongside them. Wang’s Wuhan Nationalist KMT Government, also known as Wuhan Government, Wuhan Regime, or Hankow Government dominated the Left-Wing of the KMT, firs led by Eugen Chen, was by now completely under control of Wang Jingwei. The differences between the Left-KMT and the Right-KMT, also known as the Wuhan-Nanjing Split further escalated during the planning of the Norther Expedition against the Northern Warlords.
Fearful that afterwards Chiang might use the National Revolutionary Army (NRA) as their commander-in-chief to eliminate internal enemies and rivals as well, Wang and the Warlords allied to his Left-Wing KMT, or simply opposed to Chiang and his Right-Wing KMT prepared their own actiongs against them with the aid of their own formed Wuhan Government and soon both sides started Purges against one another before the Northern Expedition, to End this separation and to unify the KMT under themselves. With the so called Nanking Massacre and Shanghai Massacre, the Right-Wing KMT got severely weakened and Left-KMT, alongside the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) further prepared their own operatonsm fully aware that most likely the Right-KMT and the other Warlords would not be so easily defeated. Right-Wing KMT elements however were severely weakened from this first strike and the Left Chinese Nationalist KMP Party while expelling to hardcore Communism and Nationalists from their rank, to form something new and own, calling for a full purge of all opposing political groups and individuals, before they, like Chiang could plot against them. As a result of that the Guangzhou Clique group and the CCP completely rallied being Wang, believing claims of Chiang having planned a Purge of his own against them. Within weeks the purges and attacks against one another would escalate to full-out open warfare between the Left-KMT and Right-KMT groups and preventing their prepared KMT offenses north, or major urban offensive and ending the Chinese United Front and internal KMT Unity alike. Together with his allied Feng Yuxiang and Yan Xishan, Wang formed a new central government in opposition to Chiang, drafted a new constitution and served as Prime Minister, later President, first in aid of Yan’s government, later his own. His anti-Chiang Coalition consisted of Wang Jingwei Wangist Wuhan Government, closely aligned and allied Warlords opposing the Nanking KMT, Zhili Clique and Fengtiang Clique alike, mainly the Guominjun, Shanxi Clique (Yan Xishan), Guangxi Clique and others, under leadership of Wang Jingwei, Yan Xishan, Feng Yuxiang, Li Zongren, Bai Chongxi, Fu Zuoyi, Zhang Fakui, Tang Shengzhi and others.
With combined forces, they would be conquering Beijing and Nanjing for the KMT-CCP, United Front following Central Government and the Nationalist Revolutionary Army (NRA), against the Nanjing Right-KMT Nationalist Government under Chiang Kai-shek and the Zhili Clique and Fengtian Clique (also known as the Beiyang Government), purging Communists, Nationalists, Zhili and Fengtian alike in the so called Eastern Expedition, or Lower Yangtze Plains War, leading to the political split between Left-Wing KMT and Right-Wing KMT. With their victory, between 1931 and 1932, the Central Government would remain victorious over the regime of Chiang and others in their victories in the Battle of Beiyang, Battle of Nanjing and Battle of Shanghai. Surviving, Chiang would flee overseas to Europe, were he would become an honored guest of Italy and Benito Mussolini, as well as Germany and Adolf Hitler, who paraded him around as the legitimate right-wing Fascist and Nationalist KMT and Chinese leader, while Wang began a civil war against remnants of the Communists and Nationalists alike in what he now called the Pacification of the Warlords and China. Wang was uncertain in China could withstand the single attack of a foreign outside power, like Britain, France, Soviet Union, or Japan at this time and in fear of such dominance and influence also opposed foreign outside alliances, even more so with nations that had occupied and stolen rightfully Chinese lands and territories. Despite his opposition to growing Japanese influence, like in Southern Manchuria however, Wang also opposed other foreign influence replacing it and any foreign influence in China in general and saw the White Devilish Powers (Soviet Union, Britain and the United States) as much more greater dangers then Japan, who were Asian Brothers with a similar history and fate then China). To keep China independent a massive modernization and education program was needed Chiang believed. Despite all this Wang was a realist, ready to ally with the Soviet Union if that was what would keep China independent, especial as the Soviet Union Socialist and Communist groups had so greatly supported him during the Chinese Revolutions and Chinese Civil War.
As a result of this Wang would approach the Soviet Union and Japan alike, hoping to sign a so called Anti-Colonial, or Anti-Imperial pact against the ambitions and holdings of other American and European Powers in Asia. Remnants of the Right-Wing KMT meanwhile organized themselves as a rebellion and guerrilla alongside structural lines of European Fascists and Nationalists alike. If both the Soviet Union and Japan could side with his China, so believed Wang, China could withstand any Western Imperialist Colonial Power. At the same time Wang also met with Left-KMT inspired anti-colonial figures in Hanoi, French Indochina, to voice his support for pan-Asian anti-Colonialism, both in a move to look better in the eyes of the Soviet Union and the Japanese Empire alike. He explained his China would oppose Fascism and Western Imperialism alike and that soon foreign power exterritoriality in China would End and China would retake what was rightfully his. His Three New principles were Pan-Asianism, anti-Colonialism and opposition to Chiang. Under him luxuries would not be so sparse anymore and rebuilding and opening up China to the international market began anew. Some shortcomings and restrictions created a black market that Wang tried to eliminate with his Tewu, a secret intelligence agency and military police force. His control mainly held the coast, rivers, railways and major cities, while the south, west and north was more controlled by various degrees of allied, but more so independent warlords, as well as enemy guerrilla movements and groups for now. His hipe to Unify all Races of China under one Flag resulted in Wang being seen as a traitor by Fascist and Nationalist Han Chinese supporters. His new education and land reforms aimed to create a workforce for the farms, mines and industries alike to modernize China. To many modern Chinese he became the Father of a new China, a liberator from foreign American and European, as well as Han Colonialism and Imperialism alike, from Fascism and Nationalism. Seen as the true heir of Sun Yat-Sen and the great mediator between the Left-KMT and the CCP for a United Central Government.
Last edited:
United China will be no matter what a great competition for the USSR in struggle for control of Asia.
Well, so the most important question is already answered - with Hitler in power WW2 will happen for sure. 1930's and 1940's gonna be fun for sure
Last edited:
Well that's rather unexpected. Given that Manchuria is (via Manchukuo) still a puppet of Japan, the former puppet of China (Korea) is owned by them and Taiwan is owned by Japan as well, leaning on them to avoid the evil westerners seems a tad odd.
But then again, what options do they have. I'd say only the USSR (rematch with Japan, for railroad concessions and some of the resources in Manchuria to develop the Russian Far East perhaps?) and the USA for free market access are relatively benign factors. Neither work in the Pan-Asian narrative though.
But then again, what options do they have. I'd say only the USSR (rematch with Japan, for railroad concessions and some of the resources in Manchuria to develop the Russian Far East perhaps?) and the USA for free market access are relatively benign factors. Neither work in the Pan-Asian narrative though.
I don't believe Manchukuo exists yet, ITTL. There is Japanese influence in the region, though.
Yes and no, just because he visits Hitler does not automatically mean he will be in power, it could just be a meeting of like-minded fascists/ nationalists or to have him give speaches about the dangers of a Socialist/ Communist Revolution and takeover first hand.
That is very much true I belive going forward.
Not yet, the Southern Manchurian Railway is Japanese controlled and Fengtiang remnants in the Northeast (for now like OTL) are very much Japanese backed and influenced, but Zhang Xueliang/ Chang Hsüeh-liang the Young Marshal, unlike his father is not openly pro-Japanese and instead tries to get aid from the new Central Government to expell the Japanese for good, wich is why they want him gone and replaced by a puppet rather quickly.
Indeed, see above ;D
Best solution for Soviet Union is both to corporate whit China and Japan and do best to make them hate each others while also doing its best to insert its influence in both nations so in end Soviet Union will be on top
Edit: I recommend to seek non aggression pact whit both nation and economic corporation
Edit: I recommend to seek non aggression pact whit both nation and economic corporation
Last edited:
I think that Japan will start a war with China while balance of power is still in their favour, because with each passing day China will be only stronger. By sheer population China has potential to dominate its region first then all of Asia if reformed and modernized. In OTL 1930 population of the USSR was around 160M, Japan 64M and China 480M if I remember correct.
But 2nd Sino-Japanese war would be good for us as it would make China and Japan weaker and our position in Asia stronger. For me united China is far greater threat to USSR than Japan because China has historical claims to our Far East, Mongolia and China may be also interested in expansion towards Siberia and Central Asia in name of Pan-Asianism.
It would be interesting to see the interaction between 5 main players in Asia (China, Japan, USSR, USA, and european colonial empires). Each of them will want to spread their influence in Asia for sure.
Last edited:
It would allow us to remain neutral at best in Asia as long as both nations remain peaceful and keep our eyes on Europes and dangers, or possibilities there.
Indeed, Japanese Militaries and Nationalist will exactly think along those line and most likely wish to act as long as reunited CHinese governments are still weak and the warlrods still rather independent, before any major industrialisation and modernisation. Also yes this new China not only claims European treaty ports and border regions, but also Soviet Union one and is greatly opposed of any Soviet influence in Mongolia, Tuva and Xinjiang/ East Turkestan.
I think that Wang will try to restore these borders and areas of influence, which would mean pushing Japan, colonial powers and the US out of Asia, and reduction of the Soviet Union. This way Wang will turn other countries into his enemies.
Last edited: