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Raimondo makes French an official language? Well that's controversial.

Also, question. You said before that most social movements are 10-20 years ahead in this timeline. But regarding women, there's a bit of a gap (at least in New England). For instance, there hasn't been a female Prime Minister at all yet (yet), and there's a big gender disparity in the cabinet too, with only like 3 female cabinet ministers, all of whom are fairly low down. Which could be compared to somewhere like the US or Canada not having a female leader by 2030/2040 (possible but increasingly unlikely). I know Barbara Boxer was a Deputy, and Madline Dubé was opposition leader after John Kerry but is there a social reason for these lack of advancements, especially when America has had at least two female leaders?

Also are there any trans legislaters?
 
This is an amazing thread, such an interesting idea and incredibly thorough.

Although I do wonder how Long Island would put up with being so isolated from the rest of the country and might it not seek a closer relationship with the rest of New York?

Out of curiosity, where do you make your infoboxes to get them so authentic?
 
Great work on this project, I can't recall how I stumbed upon it (I don't normally explore the maps&graphics forum) but I've done my best to read through all 150+ pages of this over the past couple of days. The caliber of your content is superb. Your TL so closely parallels our own that it feels familiar* yet is unique enough to capture the imagination of your readers, a world just beyond our fingertips- so similar to ours it could be our own, where it not for some slight changes. But your changes have depth- some we might long for in OTL, but some are far worse than the nightmares of this world.

This masterful worldbuilding, combined with your graphic skillset creates an entirely believable world. So many of us access the "real" world through wikipedia, online news articles, and maps, that when you craft these graphics, you make your world 'real' to us.

Anyway, that's it- just wanted to express my admiration. As a native Brooklynite I've never thought of myself as a New Englander, but I guess now I can join the club. I've certainly got some areas which I am interested in learning more about (mostly involving baseball and religion [whats the difference amiright?])

Regardless, hats off to you, and carry on, knowing you've won another fan.


*(for instance a map of New England ITTL still generally looks like an OTL New England map, despite TTL's NE having twice as many states/provinces)

aaahh thank you so much <3 This is exactly the type of style I am going for! I'm so glad you stumbled on it! I hope to have you as a reader moving forward :)

As for baseball, the Brooklyn Dodgers are still in Brooklyn. I have a long dormant wikibox in the making on Baseball, I might be able to work on that more soon. I just hate sports haha

Religion, in what sense? I'd be willing to expand more on that.

Raimondo makes French an official language? Well that's controversial.

Also, question. You said before that most social movements are 10-20 years ahead in this timeline. But regarding women, there's a bit of a gap (at least in New England). For instance, there hasn't been a female Prime Minister at all yet (yet), and there's a big gender disparity in the cabinet too, with only like 3 female cabinet ministers, all of whom are fairly low down. Which could be compared to somewhere like the US or Canada not having a female leader by 2030/2040 (possible but increasingly unlikely). I know Barbara Boxer was a Deputy, and Madline Dubé was opposition leader after John Kerry but is there a social reason for these lack of advancements, especially when America has had at least two female leaders?

Also are there any trans legislaters?

Raimondo made it official mostly because of the extreme backlash she got from closing a bunch of French schools, then reopening them 12ish months later. Now she made it an official language in order to try and make sure the party's position is secure.

In the past I've noted that the Kirk Cabinet was unusually slanted towards old men than previous cabinets. The current government is the outlier, not the norm. There's no real reason other than party politics. That's just the dynamic of the parties at the time to not elect a female leader. Mind you, Ella T. Grasso briefly flirted with national politics, but opted to remain in Connecticut. Women have generally had much more success on the provincial level, with numerous female Premiers.

There are a few transgender legislators, but they are all at the provincial level.

This is an amazing thread, such an interesting idea and incredibly thorough.

Although I do wonder how Long Island would put up with being so isolated from the rest of the country and might it not seek a closer relationship with the rest of New York?

Out of curiosity, where do you make your infoboxes to get them so authentic?

Thank you! <3

Long Island has always been very isolated. Eastern Long Island is very much a traditional Yankee establishment. Their isolation from the rest of the country really isn't notable. Much like other highly rural areas, it developed pretty late and retained its rural culture. The real problem is Western Long Island. Brooklyn is very much an American-feeling city. It would feel much like Brooklyn does today, very cosmopolitan, busy, and just "feels like New York." Now, the seat of Government is in Southampton, Long Island. This pretty much severed any chance that Brooklyn had to rip itself away and join the United States/New York in any meaningful way. The economy was still linked with New York (and immigration/emigration was as easy as walking across a bridge) and this only grew as time went on. There is a historical animosity between Western and Eastern Long Island. Now that the west is growing rapidly and far outnumbers the east, there's proposals to split the province in two so western Long Island can have their own political sphere while eastern Long Island can retain its old-world Yankee charm.

All of my infoboxes are done in Wikipedia and then edited in Photoshop.
 
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Labour seems a lot more centrist than in the first party infoboxes. And the conservatives more right-wing. The Social Democrats logo and slogan is awful looking - also the Social Democrats being left-wing to far-left? Seems a little odd that's it's that left-wing. Oh and does the Progressive Alliance political international group exist ITTL?
 
Labour seems a lot more centrist than in the first party infoboxes. And the conservatives more right-wing. The Social Democrats logo and slogan is awful looking - also the Social Democrats being left-wing to far-left? Seems a little odd that's it's that left-wing. Oh and does the Progressive Alliance political international group exist ITTL?

Not really. When they were founded, most social democratic parties were Marxist, or at least hard left.

Meanwhile, the Social Democratic Party of Portugal, and the one for Gibraltar, are right of centre.

It's just a name.
 
Labour seems a lot more centrist than in the first party infoboxes. And the conservatives more right-wing. The Social Democrats logo and slogan is awful looking - also the Social Democrats being left-wing to far-left? Seems a little odd that's it's that left-wing. Oh and does the Progressive Alliance political international group exist ITTL?

Broadly speaking, the wikiboxes represent the current party platforms. The Conservatives and Labour have moved to the right, while the Social Democrats remain solidly on the left. In the context of New England politics, when some candidates openly say that bankers should be jailed (this is not what Bernie is saying) one tends to associate that with far-left wing. Keep in mind, only the very left faction of Labour broke off to form the Social Democrats. So Labour now is simply a bit more centrist. If you wanted to label this in Canadian political parties, the Conservatives are most likely near the current CPC. Labour is to the left of the Liberals, and the SDP is to the left of the NDP.

Not really. When they were founded, most social democratic parties were Marxist, or at least hard left.

Meanwhile, the Social Democratic Party of Portugal, and the one for Gibraltar, are right of centre.

It's just a name.

This.
 
Broadly speaking, the wikiboxes represent the current party platforms. The Conservatives and Labour have moved to the right, while the Social Democrats remain solidly on the left. In the context of New England politics, when some candidates openly say that bankers should be jailed (this is not what Bernie is saying) one tends to associate that with far-left wing. Keep in mind, only the very left faction of Labour broke off to form the Social Democrats. So Labour now is simply a bit more centrist. If you wanted to label this in Canadian political parties, the Conservatives are most likely near the current CPC. Labour is to the left of the Liberals, and the SDP is to the left of the NDP.
Yeah I could definitely tell it was to the left of the NDP but certainly not far-left.
 
Not really. When they were founded, most social democratic parties were Marxist, or at least hard left.

Meanwhile, the Social Democratic Party of Portugal, and the one for Gibraltar, are right of centre.

It's just a name.

The left, center, right are situational terms, if both Gibraltar and Portugal the ruling parties and the Socialist Labour and the Socialist Party. In comparison to these, a social Democratic Party would seem more conservative and right wing. This happens in the United States aswell based on the region. Where someone might be a moderate in Massachusetts, they maybe considered more left wing on Mississippi

Also side note, @Kanan what are the more conservative regions in American and the world?
 
As for baseball, the Brooklyn Dodgers are still in Brooklyn.

*single tear of joy wells up in eye

*clears throat

Ahem.... well it seems we don’t need to lynch O’Malley in TTL.

Religion, in what sense? I'd be willing to expand more on that.

Well particularly New England-unique faiths. It seems religion plays a far subduded role here- did anything like the United Church of Canada form as a result? Or how did the denomination of most OTL US Presidents (and several of NE’s PM’s, going by OTL), the Episcopal Church form and fair without NE? Many American Anglicans fled the US after the American Revolution- going to Nova Scotia, do they prehaps settle in fairer parts of NE? Or is there an equivilent to the National Cathedral in Washinton, or Westminster Abbey in London; A great catherdal for the funerals and weddings of the hoity-toity and elder statesmen of New England? (This is definetly an area in which I have some knowledgeability, I’d be glad to help if you want...)

Also, question. You said before that most social movements are 10-20 years ahead in this timeline. But regarding women, there's a bit of a gap (at least in New England). For instance, there hasn't been a female Prime Minister at all yet (yet), and there's a big gender disparity in the cabinet too, with only like 3 female cabinet ministers, all of whom are fairly low down. Which could be compared to somewhere like the US or Canada not having a female leader by 2030/2040 (possible but increasingly unlikely). I know Barbara Boxer was a Deputy, and Madline Dubé was opposition leader after John Kerry but is there a social reason for these lack of advancements, especially when America has had at least two female leaders?

Not to get too meta, but perhaps the lack of female major politicans ITTL reflects the reality of a lack of female major politicans in OTL’s New England.

What I mean by that is- Kanan uses real world people (mostly) to populate her TL, and our real world New England doesn’t have that many female politicans. It’s got some, sure, but enough to create balanced minister portfolios for both major parties and all the others? After all the leader of the Conservative party is a small town Connecticut mayor in OTL, while Barbara Boxer was a Californian Senator (albeit born in Brooklyn)

Anyway, I’m sure Kanan could find females to create a more balanced political landscape, but would it be at the expense of less names which we are somewhat familar with?
 
The left, center, right are situational terms, if both Gibraltar and Portugal the ruling parties and the Socialist Labour and the Social
ist Party
. In comparison to these, a social Democratic Party would seem more conservative and right wing. This happens in the United States aswell based on the region. Where someone might be a moderate in Massachusetts, they maybe considered more left wing on Mississippi

Also side note, @Kanan what are the more conservative regions in American and the world?

In the United States and Canada, the Plains are fairly conservative. What we know as the Rust Belt (Known in the United States probably as the Manufacturing Belt, as most industry still remains) also leans conservative. These are competitive states because of the strong unions still prevalent in the United States, exemplified by Social Labor. The Southwest is also super conservative. This region is basically what we think of as the South today. Take away the more questionable elements of the Republican party, and you have what amounts to a massive social conservative base in this region. The odds of Social Labor winning anything but Hamilton west of Salado is... well keep dreaming.

Cuba and Puerto Rico are also conservative states. The Social Labor base is in the Northeast and Appalachia.

*single tear of joy wells up in eye

*clears throat

Ahem.... well it seems we don’t need to lynch O’Malley in TTL.

Well particularly New England-unique faiths. It seems religion plays a far subduded role here- did anything like the United Church of Canada form as a result? Or how did the denomination of most OTL US Presidents (and several of NE’s PM’s, going by OTL), the Episcopal Church form and fair without NE? Many American Anglicans fled the US after the American Revolution- going to Nova Scotia, do they prehaps settle in fairer parts of NE? Or is there an equivilent to the National Cathedral in Washinton, or Westminster Abbey in London; A great catherdal for the funerals and weddings of the hoity-toity and elder statesmen of New England? (This is definetly an area in which I have some knowledgeability, I’d be glad to help if you want...)

Hmm. Good point I never thought of. Given the higher concentration of Anglicans in the southern Colonies, it is safe to assume the Episcopal Church formed in the United States and has maintained a strong standing ever since. I find it dubious that it would form within New England, instead it would be a separate church system that may or may not be organisationally linked to the Church of England. (I doubt they would, but it would be a separate church that is part of the Anglican Community). After the war, loyalists fled to Upper Canada and New England. Given the fact that the Maritimes are still full of Acadians at this time, its very safe to assume that these Anglicans settled in southern New England where the growing season was a bit longer and the winters a tad more bearable.

Trinity Church serves a similar purpose as the National Cathedral or Westminster Abbey in New England. I find it dubious that it happens often, due to the fact that Catholics make up a significant minority and Protestants are only a plurality in the country.

Side note, considering New Englanders never had an Ohio or the Midwest to escape to, it's safe to assume that Ontario mirrors a lot of the Midwest. So you'll find you New England town names peppered across Ontario and typical New England town greens, while the Midwest looks and sounds a lot different. More German names, settlement patterns a bit more sporadic.

Not to get too meta, but perhaps the lack of female major politicans ITTL reflects the reality of a lack of female major politicans in OTL’s New England.

What I mean by that is- Kanan uses real world people (mostly) to populate her TL, and our real world New England doesn’t have that many female politicans. It’s got some, sure, but enough to create balanced minister portfolios for both major parties and all the others? After all the leader of the Conservative party is a small town Connecticut mayor in OTL, while Barbara Boxer was a Californian Senator (albeit born in Brooklyn)

Anyway, I’m sure Kanan could find females to create a more balanced political landscape, but would it be at the expense of less names which we are somewhat familar with?

Eh, not really. I can name a bunch of capable female leaders from the 1970s to today from New England.

Ella Grasso (Connecticut)
Margaret Heckler (Long Island)
Kelly Ayotte (New Hampshire)
Maggie Hassan (Massachusetts Bay)
Olympia Snowe (Maine)
Margret Chase Smith (Maine)
Kirsten Gillibrand (Adirondack)

I could go on.

There's really no inherit bias in it, it's just how the chips fell, I guess. If I could go back and change it, I probably would have made Margret Chase Smith Prime Minister.
 
In the United States and Canada, the Plains are fairly conservative. What we know as the Rust Belt (Known in the United States probably as the Manufacturing Belt, as most industry still remains) also leans conservative. These are competitive states because of the strong unions still prevalent in the United States, exemplified by Social Labor. The Southwest is also super conservative. This region is basically what we think of as the South today. Take away the more questionable elements of the Republican party, and you have what amounts to a massive social conservative base in this region. The odds of Social Labor winning anything but Hamilton west of Salado is... well keep dreaming.

Cuba and Puerto Rico are also conservative states. The Social Labor base is in the Northeast and Appalachia.



Hmm. Good point I never thought of. Given the higher concentration of Anglicans in the southern Colonies, it is safe to assume the Episcopal Church formed in the United States and has maintained a strong standing ever since. I find it dubious that it would form within New England, instead it would be a separate church system that may or may not be organisationally linked to the Church of England. (I doubt they would, but it would be a separate church that is part of the Anglican Community). After the war, loyalists fled to Upper Canada and New England. Given the fact that the Maritimes are still full of Acadians at this time, its very safe to assume that these Anglicans settled in southern New England where the growing season was a bit longer and the winters a tad more bearable.

Trinity Church serves a similar purpose as the National Cathedral or Westminster Abbey in New England. I find it dubious that it happens often, due to the fact that Catholics make up a significant minority and Protestants are only a plurality in the country.

Side note, considering New Englanders never had an Ohio or the Midwest to escape to, it's safe to assume that Ontario mirrors a lot of the Midwest. So you'll find you New England town names peppered across Ontario and typical New England town greens, while the Midwest looks and sounds a lot different. More German names, settlement patterns a bit more sporadic.



Eh, not really. I can name a bunch of capable female leaders from the 1970s to today from New England.

Ella Grasso (Connecticut)
Margaret Heckler (Long Island)
Kelly Ayotte (New Hampshire)
Maggie Hassan (Massachusetts Bay)
Olympia Snowe (Maine)
Margret Chase Smith (Maine)
Kirsten Gillibrand (Adirondack)

I could go on.

There's really no inherit bias in it, it's just how the chips fell, I guess. If I could go back and change it, I probably would have made Margret Chase Smith Prime Minister.

How dare you forget Cape Breton’s own Flora MacDonald! :closedtongue:
 
Speaking of religion @Kanan what became of Mormonism and the transcendental movements as well as the second great awakening, missionaries to Hawaii, puritans, and other New England based religious movements?

Also does New England have anything equitable to the Bible Belt?
 
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