Ottoman terms in a CP victory?

In the event of a Central Powers victory in the First World War that is assumed to include the Ottomans (certainly not a foregone conclusion), what sort of terms would the Ottoman government have imposed on the Allied powers? I'm assuming (correct me if I'm wrong) that even a victorious Ottoman Empire would not have been in the position to dictate terms to Britain and France, or even Russia, but may have been able to do so to Greece, and possibly Italy (regarding the Dodecanese or maybe Libya). I'm assuming a CP victory sometime in 1917 or 1918 - feel free to play with these dates.
 
It depends on how heavily Germany, and to a lesser degree Austria-Hungary, backs them. Assuming that Greece and Italy are members of the Entente then the North-eastern Aegean Islands and the Dodecanese seem like obvious choices since they're blocked off by Bulgaria on land. Further afield they might press for the return of Libya, Cyprus and Egypt were technically still Ottoman territory if under British or local Khedival control so at the very least I'd expect them to want to go back to that. The British are going to be very sensitive about the Suez Canal so I'm not sure they'd like the Ottomans deposing the Khedive and re-absorbing Egypt, at best I could see them throwing him under the bus if they were allowed to still garrison and control the Canal zone like the Panama Canal, and even then they would of had to have suffered a major defeat to even consider that. In Arabia if the Hashemites, al-Sauds and other tribes rebelled against the central government with British support then they're going to get deposed, IIRC the Rashidi stayed loyal so they're going to reap any rewards.
 
Least: Agean Islands, Dodecanese
Medium: Libya, Kuwait, bits of Arabia, Armenia, Azerbaijan
High: Yemen, Georgia, all of Arabia, Cyprus.
ASB: Egypt, Tunisia, Eritrea.
 
From the Ottoman point of view Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria and Sudan were occupied Ottoman vassals so they would only be asking to get their own territory back.
 
they would probably try to get all of the mentioned above plus Algeria and Morocco.
they would try, but I doubt they would get much.
they will probably be dissapointed by Central powers (like Italy was by Allies), so expect them on opposite side in possible future war.
 

LordKalvert

Banned
In any of these questions, the answer would depend on what "victory" means. The Ottomans are bit players and a CP victory is going to make Germany pretty Hegemonic so it depends mostly on what Germany is willing to give. WWI is pretty much duel to the death and a negotiated peace unlikely, in my opinion. Others would disagree

The end of Entente treaty privileges would be a start

Certainly concessions to the Ottomans concerning Central Asia would be on the table- the Germans care little for the region. Depends on how badly the Russians are mauled what they actually get but the Muslim regions are likely

Kuwait and the Arabian peninsula would be almost assured

North Africa- interesting. How much are the Germans willing to give? They might or might not want checks on Ottoman power. France and Italy are definitely going to get crushed and Libya, Tunis and Algeria aren't going to make the Ottomans very powerful so yes, the Germans could let the Ottomans have them

Egypt is much harder to say- its a plum and the Germans are likely to want to keep it for themselves (assuming the British can't keep it) though they might be satisfied with the Turks having it knowing that the Ottomans aren't a threat to the Reich
 
It depends when the Central Powers win, and even then, they will be lucky to hold onto what they have. They won't be getting anything in the Balkans because the Bulgarian and Austro-Hungarian Empires will be the ones dividing it up. The Germans will likely gain a protectorate over Morocco, which they had wanted for a while, but I don't see Libya, Tunis, or Algeria being handed over to the ottomans, especially given the fact that the Med was an Entente lake. Egypt is simply not going to be handed over to the Ottomans. The British commanded the waves, even if France falls, that won't change the fact that the Germans lack the ability to project power outside of Europe.

By mid 1917 the British had conquered most of Mesopotamia and taken Baghdad, and had rebuffed the Ottoman offensive against the Sinai and had launched their own offensive. By late 1917, the Ottomans had lost Jerusalem and Arabia was all but lost to them. The only place I could see the Ottomans making any significant gains is north eastern Iran, given that after the fall of the Russians, they maintained dominance over the region between Tabriz and the Caspian until the end of the war.

If it's, by some miracle, a short war, the Ottomans might makes some gains in the Caucasus Mountain. If it's a long war the Ottomans are probably trading control of Mesopotamia, Arabia, and the Southern Levant for gains in the Caucasus Mountain and North Eastern Iran.
 
The Ottomans had very limited war aims. The Aug 6, 1914 letter of Sait Halim to German Ambassador von Wangenheim spells out 6 proposals:

1] abolition of the capitulations

2] a fair agreement with Bulgaria re possible spoils of war

3] any Ottoman territory occupied by the enemy during the war must be returned

4] Return of the Aegean Islands to Turkey provided Greece enters the war

5] a small correction of the eastern border which will place Turkey in direct contact with the Muslims of Russia

6] an appropriate war indemnity
 
They could gain the Aegean islands, Rhodes, Kuwait, Armenia, and parts of Arabia. The British will never give up Egypt, but they could be made to restore the Khedivate.
 
What are the odds of them getting Crete ?Did they have any interest in the island and would it have served a point if they did get it ?Also I could see a victorious Germany making Italy pay through the nose for betraying the alliance by making them give the Ottomans Libya and all of their other overseas possessions as payback .As well as giving Austria huge chunks of their north as well .Maybe you could see a Austrian Venice ?
For sure though the Turks would probably get back everything up to the Holy land .Maybe even Jerusalem and other cities as well ?Oh and what of the ships they ordered from British firms pre-war that Churchill stole to add a few extra tons to the RN ?Would they be turned over to the empire ,as well as maybe a few Italian and French ships to counteract the Austrian Kreigsmarine or K.u.K .Perhaps by the late 1920`s the Ottoman navy has a dozen or so dreadnoughts in service and are in an arms race with Austria who also has a dozen modern BB`s .Mostly home built .Meanwhile France and especially Italy are in the midst of massive economic turmoil due to the harsh treaty terms imposed on them .While England safe in their island quickly recover to threaten the victorious Germans .
 
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Enver Pasha became very interested in Pan-Turkism, as one of the leaders of Turkey you'd expect him and others like him, to promote expansion to the east towards Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan, rather than to the West and into the Med.
 
Thanks for the excellent replies. I'm curious about the late Ottoman fascination with the Muslim Turkic regions of the Russian Empire. I knew the Kemalists were all about pan-Turkism, and the Turkish language reform of the 1920s-30s even drew on the Central Asian languages to replace Arabic and Persian loans in Anatolian Turkish; but this is the first I've heard of the Ottoman government being interested in this. Does this mean that even a surviving Ottoman government would have turned to pan-Turkic ethno-nationalism? I can guess what that would have meant for the Ottoman Empire's non-Turkish populations :(

And what form would this pivot to the east take - demands for annexation of Russian Azerbaijan for instance? Or even further, to Russian Turkistan (Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, etc.)? How much could they realistically annex from a defeated Russia, especially if the Bolsheviks still take power? And one poster suggested annexing Iranian territory, how would this be accomplished? I thought Iran was a neutral party in the war, but correct me if I'm mistaken.
 
Thanks for the excellent replies. I'm curious about the late Ottoman fascination with the Muslim Turkic regions of the Russian Empire. I knew the Kemalists were all about pan-Turkism, and the Turkish language reform of the 1920s-30s even drew on the Central Asian languages to replace Arabic and Persian loans in Anatolian Turkish; but this is the first I've heard of the Ottoman government being interested in this. Does this mean that even a surviving Ottoman government would have turned to pan-Turkic ethno-nationalism? I can guess what that would have meant for the Ottoman Empire's non-Turkish populations :(

And what form would this pivot to the east take - demands for annexation of Russian Azerbaijan for instance? Or even further, to Russian Turkistan (Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, etc.)? How much could they realistically annex from a defeated Russia, especially if the Bolsheviks still take power? And one poster suggested annexing Iranian territory, how would this be accomplished? I thought Iran was a neutral party in the war, but correct me if I'm mistaken.
Enver Pasha died in Bukhara supporting the Bukhari revolt against the Soviets, as with all Envers Military endeavours, success invariably followed, and his death was a real loss to the rebellion.
Given the weakness in the Turkish economy, and amongst its military, any successful push to the east would have been dependent on the strength of what became of the Russian Empire, and the willingness of the Germans post war to support it.
The Germans were most enthusiastic about a Berlin to Baghdad Railway so their interests were more to the South east, with Luudendorff did advocate using the Turks to dispossess the British of India, but by then, he was clearly in need of a rest.
On the other hand I suspect a successful German empire would have probably wished to see the Bolsheviks, gone. They may have then supported some Turkish action against the Soviets.
After the war the Turkish Government was very embarrassed about its treatment of the Armenians, and happily took advantage of the absence of Enver and Talaat to try them for their crimes. I suspect that the Turks would have been happy too execute them in absentia too.
Of course by then, the Turks had already lost the war.
 
The 6 proposals mentioned above were also accepted by the German government, so they can serve as a framework for Ottoman war aims.

By 1917 Greece entered the war, which means Germany is technically required to back the Ottoman in claiming the Aegan Islands. The Dodecanese Islands are almost certainly going to be given to the Ottomans as well, since they still claimed them. Libya is also going to atleast be under Ottoman suzerainty, if not re-annexed. In Arabia Kuwait will pronbably go to the Ottomans and possibly Lahej, which they occupied. Rest of Arabia will be divided like it was in the Anglo-Ottoman convention (just look up the border).

Georgia and Armenia are going to have the same borders with Turkey as they were given in the Treaty of Batum which is this http://www.conflicts.rem33.com/images/Georgia/arm_geor_war/map 2.gif (poor Armenia:()

Georgia was firmly under German protection by 1918, so the Ottomans aren't getting it. Here's where it gets tricky, because of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Caucasus_Expedition Because of this the Ottomans might get all of Azerbaijan except for Baku, which the Soviets would get. However, they did end up occupying it in OTL so who knows. No matter who gets the city the Germans will make sure that they have guaranteed access to Baku's oil.

I know that OTL the Ottoman Army of Islam made it as far north as Dagestan and that they wanted to make the rest of the north Caucasus (chechyna) into a client state as well. I believe the Army of Islam planned to launch an expedition into Bukhara after they secured the Caucasus so potentially that could be Ottoman as well.

Iran was technically a neutral party, but the Turks and Brits both invaded it and battles were fought there. Here's a map of the situation. http://www.conflicts.rem33.com/images/The Caucasus/Cauco_Mesopotamia_WWI/Nr5_Jul_Oct_1918.jpg

I know that the Ottomans wanted atleast the little bulge around Khoy as seen in that map. They probably could get all of the area in Iran that they occupied (areas in Iran shaded green on that map) if they had won. This map also shows the area I'm talking about with a single color.
http://www.conflicts.rem33.com/images/The Caucasus/Cauco_Mesopotamia_WWI/Nr6_Oct_Nov_1918.jpg

There you go, I hope it answers some questions!:D
 
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