Ottoman Balkans Population Map

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

Calvinists, Methodist, Baptists, and Dissentors all of these were religious minorities compared to the Church of England.

That these were even classified as "religious minorities" says something about a lack of tolerance. There are as many branches of Sunnism (not to mention Shiism) that have greater differences between them than there are between Methodists and Baptists.

I'll give you "Catholic" and "Protestant".

 

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

The ottoman risk their minorities rebelled and took over a European province or two, the British risked the Catholics would take over the entire country and decapitate the King and most of the elite, it gives another level of Paranoia.

Presbytarians and Methodists was both rather large.

I hardly think a Catholic takeover and public execution of Queen Victoria was possible in 1875.

And the very capital of the Ottoman Empire not only had a population that was nearly half non-Muslim, it was the central focus of the national aspirations of the largest non-Muslim group, the Greeks. "A European province or two" resulted in the deaths of millions of Muslims and their eradication in what had been as much their homeland as was Anatolia. The Ottomans conquered the Balkans before most of what is now Turkey, and settled there from the earliest stages of the Empire.

A rebellion of the Greeks could very well end in the total destruction of the empire and the extermination of the Muslims throughout the core of it.

What would have happened if Sevres held? It would have been the end of the Turks - they may have survived in a rump part of Anatolia.

 

[Valdemar II]

That these were even classified as "religious minorities" says something about a lack of tolerance. There are as many branches of Sunnism (not to mention Shiism) that have greater differences between them than there are between Methodists and Baptists.

I'll give you "Catholic" and "Protestant".

You don't find any people less tolerant of minor thelogical differences than Protestants. It's whats give us our charm.

 

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

You don't find any people less tolerant of minor thelogical differences than Protestants. It's whats give us our charm.

Although here in the USA they're starting to gang up, and with the Catholics!

 

[Ian the Admin]

You're talking rubbish by bringing the completely nonsensical unrelated issue into this discussion about the lack of Danes in Ottoman administration. You don't know ANYTHING about Ottoman Empire compared to Pasha !! Instead of being a intensively inconsistent Anti-Ottoman ranter, why don't you be a real man and ask REAL questions ?!

Have some respect for other posters and don't throw around such rude and ridiculous accusations.

 

[Geordie]

Firstly, i'd like to thank Abdul for putting this up. It's a really interesting map, and i think most people will get some surprises - especially over Bulgaria.

Mind you, this gives my Bulgar-wankish tendencies a bit of a headache!

A couple of queries, if you don't mind:

On Bulgaria / Rumelia, how many of the Muslims are 'Turks', 'Bulgarian Turks', 'Bulgarian Muslims' (Pomaks?), etc.

Regarding the Dobruja (sp?), Black Sea and Lower Danube - Tuna area: why the heck did the Bulgars get that lot at Berlin? Was it simply because if they had got 'Bulgarian' land, the empire would have been split in two, even if the Bulgars were nominally a vassal?

 

[Philip]

Presumably cos they wanted it.

What the Bulgarians wanted was, at best, of secondary importance. The Bulgarians had to accept what the Great Powers handed to them. In fact, if memory serves, the Bulgarians were not even allowed to participate in the negotiations.

 

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

What the Bulgarians wanted was, at best, of secondary importance. The Bulgarians had to accept what the Great Powers handed to them. In fact, if memory serves, the Bulgarians were not even allowed to participate in the negotiations.

That's correct - and the Ottomans weren't either, although they were allowed to attend.

 

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

In Bulgaria/Rumelia, it's impossible to calculate the proportion of Bulgarian Muslims to Turks, but it was heavily weighted to Turks - although there would certainly have been a lot of Bulgarian blood in these.

In the southern part of the Edirne province and bleeding over into Salonika there was a concentration of Pomaks, who were Bulgarian-speaking Muslims.

The Dobruja went to Rumania in compensation for losing their slice of Bessarabia north of the Danube delta - the Black Sea coast below that went to Bulgaria becasue there were still a lot of Christians there, and in this time period Muslims ruling over Christians, even if the former were in the majority, was considered abhorrent.

Incidentally, in the subprovince of Varna, about half the Christians are actually Greeks, not Bulgarians.

Firstly, i'd like to thank Abdul for putting this up. It's a really interesting map, and i think most people will get some surprises - especially over Bulgaria.

Mind you, this gives my Bulgar-wankish tendencies a bit of a headache!

A couple of queries, if you don't mind:

On Bulgaria / Rumelia, how many of the Muslims are 'Turks', 'Bulgarian Turks', 'Bulgarian Muslims' (Pomaks?), etc.

Regarding the Dobruja (sp?), Black Sea and Lower Danube - Tuna area: why the heck did the Bulgars get that lot at Berlin? Was it simply because if they had got 'Bulgarian' land, the empire would have been split in two, even if the Bulgars were nominally a vassal?

 

[Geordie]

Cheers for clearing up these questions - or confusing me more, by revealing just how daft the situation was, for example:

Incidentally, in the subprovince of Varna, about half the Christians are actually Greeks, not Bulgarians.

 

[George Carty]

I remember reading on a blog that before it was annexed by Greece, Crete was Muslim-majority? Did a lot of refugees from Thessaly settle there after 1876? (The posting said that most Cretan Muslims were Hellenophones, not Turkophones...)

 

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

I remember reading on a blog that before it was annexed by Greece, Crete was Muslim-majority? Did a lot of refugees from Thessaly settle there after 1876? (The posting said that most Cretan Muslims were Hellenophones, not Turkophones...)

It's possible that Crete had a Muslim majority at some point, but I think it's unlikely. Around the time of this map, it was about 45% Muslim, and that percentage drifted down under the "autonomous" regime imposed on the island by the Powers. In effect, this meant Christian domination of the island and the persecution of the Muslim minority. Finally, after Greece attacked the empire in 1897 (and was crushed by the Ottomans), the Greeks were rewarded for their aggression by having the crown prince of Greece appointed as the governor of what was still an Ottoman province. After this, the Muslim population was essentially liquidated. The survivors mostly ended up in Izmir/Smyrna, and were understandably not too keen on Greeks.