Other than 1748, Were There Any Other Opportunities for France to Acquire Belgium?

There were four or five different versions of treaties to partition the Spanish empire, starting in 1668 IIRC.
However Charles II never accepted the idea of partitioning his heredity, and in the end he willed the lot to Philippe of Anjou, with the only proviso that the crown of France and Spain would never be united. Louis XIV, who had recently agreed to a last version of the partition was surprised himself but could not resist the temptation of putting Philippe on the throne in Madrid. The result was a war lasting 12 years and costing France a fortune.

It didn't have to be a 12-year war. It could have been just a French-Austrian conflict, but Louis needlessly provoked England (by recognizing James II's son) and the Netherlands (by moving troops into the Spanish Netherlands), turning it into a general European war. Both countries had been willing to support the duc d'Anjou's claims up to then. It was a major blunder by Louis to antagonize them and nearly ended in disaster.
 
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CaliGuy

Banned
It didn't have to be a 12-year war. It could have been just a French-Austrian conflict, but Louis needlessly provoked England (by recognizing James II's son) and the Netherlands (by moving troops into the Spanish Netherlands), turning it into a general European war. Both countries had been willing to support duc d'Anjou's claims up to then.
So, in other words, Louis was a moron and a serious blunderer?
 
So, in other words, Louis was a moron and a serious blunderer?

Kind of. But then, stupidity abounded back then: France was on its knees midway through that war, but even after Louis remarkably promised to return all of France's conquests since 1648, they pushed him even further, demanding that he go to war against his own grandson. Dumb. Louis kindly told them to allez vous faire f**tre, resumed the war, and his forces managed to win back a lot of lost territory, while Philippe also triumphed in Spain.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Kind of. But then, stupidity abounded back then: France was on its knees midway through that war, but even after Louis remarkably promised to return all of France's conquests since 1648, they pushed him even further, demanding that he go to war against his own grandson. Dumb. Louis kindly told them to allez vous faire f**tre, resumed the war, and his forces managed to win back a lot of lost territory, while Philippe also triumphed in Spain.
So, in other words, Louis ended up achieving a stalemate/partial victory in a war of attrition, correct?

Also, when exactly did Louis offer to return everything that France acquired after 1648--including Alsace? In 1710?
 
So, in other words, Louis ended up achieving a stalemate/partial victory in a war of attrition, correct?

Also, when exactly did Louis offer to return everything that France acquired after 1648--including Alsace? In 1710?

It was earlier - about 1708. The pivotal battle of Malplaquet in 1709 came after Louis resolved to resume the war.

Yeah, the final peace treaty may not have given Louis everything he wanted back in 1701 (and he had to relinquish a few northern towns, like Ypres), but compared to the situation in 1708, it was a massive improvement. He was on the verge of having pretty much his entire legacy as ruler destroyed.
 
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CaliGuy

Banned
It was earlier - about 1708. The pivotal battle of Malplaquet in 1709 came after Louis resolved to resume the war.

Yeah, the final peace treaty may not have given Louis everything he wanted back in 1701 (and he had to relinquish a few northern towns, like Ypres), but compared to the situation in 1708, it was a massive improvement. He was on the verge of having pretty much his entire legacy as ruler destroyed.
OK; understood.

Also, though, out of curiosity--had France made peace back in 1708, who exactly would have acquired Alsace afterwards?
 
OK; understood.

Also, though, out of curiosity--had France made peace back in 1708, who exactly would have acquired Alsace afterwards?

I don't know; it's a good question. I assume whichever rulers it previously had would have gotten it back (it had not been unified before), although I'm not certain.

This was a remarkable peace offer, at any rate. All these colored bits (except the red ones) would have been lost to France. The situation must have been really dire to offer all of this up.

550px-France_1643_to_1715-fr.svg.png
 

CaliGuy

Banned
I don't know; it's a good question. I assume whichever rulers it previously had would have gotten it back (it had not been unified before), although I'm not certain.

This was a remarkable peace offer, at any rate. All these colored bits (except the red ones) would have been lost to France. The situation must have been really dire to offer all of this up.

550px-France_1643_to_1715-fr.svg.png
So the dark red/light brown areas would have been excluded from this territorial transfer?
 

CaliGuy

Banned
The offer was to go back to the 1648 borders; I'm assuming that meant post-Westphalia but could be wrong.
OK; understood.

Also, though, couldn't France try reconquering its lost territories in the future if its 1708 offer was actually accepted?
 
OK; understood.

Also, though, couldn't France try reconquering its lost territories in the future if its 1708 offer was actually accepted?

Sure, but that would be a major effort. They'd have to fight a lot of countries to get all that territory back, and the rest of Europe would probably be happy to join forces to contest them at every turn.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Sure, but that would be a major effort. They'd have to fight a lot of countries to get all that territory back, and the rest of Europe would probably be happy to join forces to contest them at every turn.
Even if France only wants to acquire a small amount of territory?
 
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