Other replacements for Ferdinand VII?

Assuming that Napoleon had a change of mind and decided not to put any relatives to the Spanish throne after deposing Ferdinand VII, are there any other legitimate candidates out there that he can install to the throne for Spain to remain a French ally?
 
Assuming that Napoleon had a change of mind and decided not to put any relatives to the Spanish throne after deposing Ferdinand VII, are there any other legitimate candidates out there that he can install to the throne for Spain to remain a French ally?

Several. Aside from Carlos IV and Fernando VII there was the Infantes Carlos and Francesco de Paula (younger sons of Carlos IV) and Infante Antonio Pascual, the younger brother of Carlos IV. There was also Carlos IV's grandson by his daughter Maria Luisa, Carlo of Parma and Etruria. Personally I'd say Francesco de Paula would have been the best bet. Have him marry one of Joseph's daughters and set him up under the regency of a Bonaparte or a Marshal. It gives Napoleon de facto control while maintaining the illusion of Spanish self-rule.
 
Essentially what Constantine said, after some convincing that the Peninsular War might not have been a lost cause, continuing the illusion of Spanish self-rule would've kept Spain going in the long haul, especially in the face of the dithering of Carlos IV and the untrustworthiness of Fernando VII in Nappy's eyes. Francisco de Paula is the best bet because the other two options are hostile to Nappy's interests (Carlos, Duke of Molina/Carlos V was a staunch absolutist and would probably join the coalition in a heartbeat, while Antonio Pascual disliked Godoy and supported Fernando, so probably in a similar situation to letting Fernando keep the throne) plus Nappy might find controlling Spain by the reigns of a fourteen-year old boy more logical than putting his weak-willed brother there.

Still, dunno how feasible marrying Joseph's daughters would be, considering he's 14 at the start of the OTL Peninsular Wars, whereas Joseph's daughters were half his age (Zenaide being 6 going on 7 and Charlotte being 5.)
 
Essentially what Constantine said, after some convincing that the Peninsular War might not have been a lost cause, continuing the illusion of Spanish self-rule would've kept Spain going in the long haul, especially in the face of the dithering of Carlos IV and the untrustworthiness of Fernando VII in Nappy's eyes. Francisco de Paula is the best bet because the other two options are hostile to Nappy's interests (Carlos, Duke of Molina/Carlos V was a staunch absolutist and would probably join the coalition in a heartbeat, while Antonio Pascual disliked Godoy and supported Fernando, so probably in a similar situation to letting Fernando keep the throne) plus Nappy might find controlling Spain by the reigns of a fourteen-year old boy more logical than putting his weak-willed brother there.

Still, dunno how feasible marrying Joseph's daughters would be, considering he's 14 at the start of the OTL Peninsular Wars, whereas Joseph's daughters were half his age (Zenaide being 6 going on 7 and Charlotte being 5.)

I actually meant betrothal/engagement, with a marriage after the bride is of age (like 16 or something like that).
 
Essentially what Constantine said, after some convincing that the Peninsular War might not have been a lost cause, continuing the illusion of Spanish self-rule would've kept Spain going in the long haul, especially in the face of the dithering of Carlos IV and the untrustworthiness of Fernando VII in Nappy's eyes. Francisco de Paula is the best bet because the other two options are hostile to Nappy's interests (Carlos, Duke of Molina/Carlos V was a staunch absolutist and would probably join the coalition in a heartbeat, while Antonio Pascual disliked Godoy and supported Fernando, so probably in a similar situation to letting Fernando keep the throne) plus Nappy might find controlling Spain by the reigns of a fourteen-year old boy more logical than putting his weak-willed brother there.

Still, dunno how feasible marrying Joseph's daughters would be, considering he's 14 at the start of the OTL Peninsular Wars, whereas Joseph's daughters were half his age (Zenaide being 6 going on 7 and Charlotte being 5.)

Interesting thought. It might work. Can hardly be worse than OTL, and might be better (for Napoleon) than keeping Fernando. Hmm...

Of course, Spain staying in the Napoleonic camp probably means permanent loss of all their colonies (not just the OTL South American ones).
 
Question becomes though, who'd want Cuba and Puerto Rico? I can imagine British Philippines, and a Haitian Hispaniola (since the latter actually did happen) but that's another story...
 
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Interesting thought. It might work. Can hardly be worse than OTL, and might be better (for Napoleon) than keeping Fernando. Hmm...

Of course, Spain staying in the Napoleonic camp probably means permanent loss of all their colonies (not just the OTL South American ones).

Not really no. Britian was in no position to occupy the entirety of Spain's American empire and the revolts/revolutions in Spanish America only started after Joseph I was installed as King of Spain. The most the Spanish could lose would be various islands and even then Britain never occupied Cuba, the Philippines or Spain's other islands during the Napoleonic wars. Really Spain would lose nothing by staying allied to Napoleon, at least not at this point.
 
Not really no. Britian was in no position to occupy the entirety of Spain's American empire and the revolts/revolutions in Spanish America only started after Joseph I was installed as King of Spain. The most the Spanish could lose would be various islands and even then Britain never occupied Cuba, the Philippines or Spain's other islands during the Napoleonic wars. Really Spain would lose nothing by staying allied to Napoleon, at least not at this point.

What about Santo Domingo? Could Spain make a grab to reunify Hispaniola under a Bonapartist-aligned Bourbon Spain, or could the British egg the Haitians on to unite the Island?
 
What about Santo Domingo? Could Spain make a grab to reunify Hispaniola under a Bonapartist-aligned Bourbon Spain, or could the British egg the Haitians on to unite the Island?

That's up in the air really. Mainly it depends on what policy Parliament chooses to pursue. Remember, chances are the Peninsular war would still happen, just this time limited to Portugal. So for now at least Britain would be absorbed with dealing with the Franco-Spanish forces occupying their Portuguese ally.
 
Not really no. Britian was in no position to occupy the entirety of Spain's American empire and the revolts/revolutions in Spanish America only started after Joseph I was installed as King of Spain. The most the Spanish could lose would be various islands and even then Britain never occupied Cuba, the Philippines or Spain's other islands during the Napoleonic wars. Really Spain would lose nothing by staying allied to Napoleon, at least not at this point.

Occupy? No. But Spanish colonies were pretty well cut off from the metropole as long as Spain was allied with France. OTL, Britain had to stop attacking e.g. Argentina after the Royalist Spanish government joined the anti-Napoleonic coalition.

I don't doubt for a moment that Britain would foment rebellion, leading to independence eventually.

As for Cuba, the Brits had occupied it 40 years before (War of Jenkins Ear), and ended up giving it back in the peace treaty. I could sure see Britain NOT handing it back here if they retook it if Spain stayed in Napoleon's camp.
 
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Occupy? No. But Spanish colonies were pretty well cut off from the metropole as long as Spain was allied with France. OTL, Britain had to stop attacking e.g. Argentina after the Royalist Spanish government joined the anti-Napoleonic coalition.

I don't doubt for a moment that Britain would foment rebellion, leading to independence eventually.

As for Cuba, the Brits had occupied it 40 years before (War of Jenkins Ear), and ended up giving it back in the peace treaty. I could sure see Britain NOT handing it back here if they retook it if Spain stayed in Napoleon's camp.

Except by 1808 Spain had been France's ally for about 13 years and the UK hadn't made much of a move against Spanish colonies. Sure they occupied Trinidad and Minorca, but the attempt to take Rio de la Plata failed miserably. The most Britain could do would be stir up revolutions in the Colonies, which could end up backfiring. Really Britain's colonial campaigns during the French wars (1792-1815) were kinda lacking, with the exception of their conquest of the Dutch colonies.
 
Several. Aside from Carlos IV and Fernando VII there was the Infantes Carlos and Francesco de Paula (younger sons of Carlos IV) and Infante Antonio Pascual, the younger brother of Carlos IV. There was also Carlos IV's grandson by his daughter Maria Luisa, Carlo of Parma and Etruria. Personally I'd say Francesco de Paula would have been the best bet. Have him marry one of Joseph's daughters and set him up under the regency of a Bonaparte or a Marshal. It gives Napoleon de facto control while maintaining the illusion of Spanish self-rule.

I'd say the former Queen of Etruria and her son, the Parma turned Tuscan heir might be an interesting choice. Napoleon had already held her captive (and his treatment of her IRL was dreadful and damaged his reputation). He had already "promised" a Kingdom of Northern Lusitania for Louis II in a dismembered Portugal in exchange for Etruria/Tuscany. It would have given him a child Bourbon who he already held in captivity and who he, Napoleon, could name himself as Regent (and keep Joseph in Milan where he wasn't hated like he would be in Spain) and still keep a Bourbon offspring of Carlos on a throne. He could say he was keeping his promises by giving Louis II a bigger and more prestigious throne than Etruria could ever be.
 
I'd say the former Queen of Etruria and her son, the Parma turned Tuscan heir might be an interesting choice. Napoleon had already held her captive (and his treatment of her IRL was dreadful and damaged his reputation). He had already "promised" a Kingdom of Northern Lusitania for Louis II in a dismembered Portugal in exchange for Etruria/Tuscany. It would have given him a child Bourbon who he already held in captivity and who he, Napoleon, could name himself as Regent (and keep Joseph in Milan where he wasn't hated like he would be in Spain) and still keep a Bourbon offspring of Carlos on a throne. He could say he was keeping his promises by giving Louis II a bigger and more prestigious throne than Etruria could ever be.

By the time of the abdications of Carlos and Fernando Maria Luisa and Don Carlo were already in Madrid, so neither were in Napoleon's custody. Second, Joseph ruled Naples, not Milan. Third, I think Francesco would have been a better choice, as he was still a direct heir (Carlo was not, thanks to Salic law) to Spain and was young enough to be easily manipulated.
 
By the time of the abdications of Carlos and Fernando Maria Luisa and Don Carlo were already in Madrid, so neither were in Napoleon's custody. Second, Joseph ruled Naples, not Milan. Third, I think Francesco would have been a better choice, as he was still a direct heir (Carlo was not, thanks to Salic law) to Spain and was young enough to be easily manipulated.

Yeah, Naples was what I meant. Joseph would certainly have been better than Murat there in the long run. Too bad, he didn't realize it. He should have tried to have found a malleable descendant of the Spanish royal house at least. He had several among his allies.
 
joseph wanted to stay in Naples.

Napoleon basically told him to get his arse to Spain, and Joseph complied.

years earlier, Nap wanted brother Lucien to marry into the Spanish Bourbon family. Lucien told him where to shove off and went in exile shortly after. I've always wondered if Lucien married into the family, would he have been accepted better as king than Joseph? I believe Nap dangled a crown in front of Lucien, but Lucien would only accept under conditions of being his own king rather than a puppet, which of course Nap was never going to allow.
 
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