Other names for Canberra

[DMA]

WI PNG had become a state or two of Australia?

There was a referendum held, somewhere in the early 1970s in PNG, where the locals voted for independence than stay as part of Australia.

Change the referendum result and it's possible PNG could become a state sometime in the late 1980s. The only hassle though is the UN. PNG was seen as a "colony" & we were being pushed to give them independence one way or the other. Plus, if it did become a part of the Commonwealth as a state, Australia would have been dragged into it's own Vietnam style war when Bougainville started its insurrection.

 

[cranos]

There was a referendum held, somewhere in the early 1970s in PNG, where the locals voted for independence than stay as part of Australia.

Change the referendum result and it's possible PNG could become a state sometime in the late 1980s. The only hassle though is the UN. PNG was seen as a "colony" & we were being pushed to give them independence one way or the other. Plus, if it did become a part of the Commonwealth as a state, Australia would have been dragged into it's own Vietnam style war when Bougainville started its insurrection.

Not sure about that. There is a good chance that if PNG had become a full state of australia then Bougainville might not have happened at all. Australia is not going to want to gain a new state that is just going to be a complete drain on the economy, instead it is going to have to modernise as quickly as possible to avoid PNG becoming exactly what it is today, near collapse and a haven for raskals and proto-rebels.

On the other hand we would then be sharing a common land border with Indonesia, this might add an interesting twist to the East Timor fracas.

 

[Wendell]

There was a referendum held, somewhere in the early 1970s in PNG, where the locals voted for independence than stay as part of Australia.

Change the referendum result and it's possible PNG could become a state sometime in the late 1980s. The only hassle though is the UN. PNG was seen as a "colony" & we were being pushed to give them independence one way or the other. Plus, if it did become a part of the Commonwealth as a state, Australia would have been dragged into it's own Vietnam style war when Bougainville started its insurrection.

That is assuming that the Bougainville crisis still takes place. In such an alternate TL, the Solomon Islands themselves could have even joined Australia. Also, the most recent U.S. states became such more than a decade after the formation of the U.N.

 

[DMA]

Well in regards to PNG, the referendum held clearly showed that the locals wanted independence. So it then makes it hard for Australia to ignore the wishes of the locals, especially if the UN are on our backs. And the relationship that Australia had with PNG was nothing like the one the USA had with Hawaii or Alaska.

The next thing, and probably far more important, is the fact that PNG would have cost Australia far more than what Australia would have gotten back in return. Although that may be true of all the smaller states, it'll still add up & cost significantly more than subsidising Tasmania, West Australia, and to a lessor degree South Australia & Queensland.

Plus I have little faith in the fact that the locals in PNG would instantly behave themselves just because they're a state of Australia. More than likely that'll even reinforce their efforts at local independence & make any such insurrection even worse than the OTL. And this would take place in the aftermath of Australia's involvement in Vietnam. Furthermore, as cranos pointed out, there's the business with Indonesia/PNG/East Timor. IMHO it would more trouble than it is worth. Better give them their independence & let them stuff it all up, rather than we stuff it all up for them.

 

[Wendell]

Well in regards to PNG, the referendum held clearly showed that the locals wanted independence. So it then makes it hard for Australia to ignore the wishes of the locals, especially if the UN are on our backs. And the relationship that Australia had with PNG was nothing like the one the USA had with Hawaii or Alaska.

The next thing, and probably far more important, is the fact that PNG would have cost Australia far more than what Australia would have gotten back in return. Although that may be true of all the smaller states, it'll still add up & cost significantly more than subsidising Tasmania, West Australia, and to a lessor degree South Australia & Queensland.

Plus I have little faith in the fact that the locals in PNG would instantly behave themselves just because they're a state of Australia. More than likely that'll even reinforce their efforts at local independence & make any such insurrection even worse than the OTL. And this would take place in the aftermath of Australia's involvement in Vietnam. Furthermore, as cranos pointed out, there's the business with Indonesia/PNG/East Timor. IMHO it would more trouble than it is worth. Better give them their independence & let them stuff it all up, rather than we stuff it all up for them.

That's true about Australia's relationship with New Guinea...

 

[cranos]

That's true about Australia's relationship with New Guinea...

Two ideas spring to mind:

1. PNG votes to become a fully fledged state within Australia. Massive investment in infrastructure and industry follows to build the state of Papua New Guinea to the same base standards as the rest of the country. Could see potential trouble with clash of cultures but if handled right it could be done.

This however leaves open the Indonesian question. What does Australia do about West Papua? Does the PNG referendum take place before or after the sham referendum forced by the Indonesians, if before could we see clashes between Australian and Indonesian forces over border control as well as an insurrgency run against the Australians supplied by Indonesia?

2. PNG votes to leave but more authoritarean government refuses. Stung over the losses in Vietnam and threatened by a rapidly expanding Indonesia the government decides it needs to have a forward base in case the dominos start to fall. PNG is declared a territory of australia "In Perpituity" and basically becomes a police state ala East Timor under the Indonesians.

 

[Wendell]

Two ideas spring to mind:

1. PNG votes to become a fully fledged state within Australia. Massive investment in infrastructure and industry follows to build the state of Papua New Guinea to the same base standards as the rest of the country. Could see potential trouble with clash of cultures but if handled right it could be done.

This however leaves open the Indonesian question. What does Australia do about West Papua? Does the PNG referendum take place before or after the sham referendum forced by the Indonesians, if before could we see clashes between Australian and Indonesian forces over border control as well as an insurrgency run against the Australians supplied by Indonesia?

2. PNG votes to leave but more authoritarean government refuses. Stung over the losses in Vietnam and threatened by a rapidly expanding Indonesia the government decides it needs to have a forward base in case the dominos start to fall. PNG is declared a territory of australia "In Perpituity" and basically becomes a police state ala East Timor under the Indonesians.

It would be interesting to have Australia take over East Timor too.

 

[DMA]

That's true about Australia's relationship with New Guinea...

Well if the Queenslanders kept out of PNG in the first place...

 

[DMA]

Two ideas spring to mind:

1. PNG votes to become a fully fledged state within Australia. Massive investment in infrastructure and industry follows to build the state of Papua New Guinea to the same base standards as the rest of the country. Could see potential trouble with clash of cultures but if handled right it could be done.

This however leaves open the Indonesian question. What does Australia do about West Papua? Does the PNG referendum take place before or after the sham referendum forced by the Indonesians, if before could we see clashes between Australian and Indonesian forces over border control as well as an insurrgency run against the Australians supplied by Indonesia?

2. PNG votes to leave but more authoritarean government refuses. Stung over the losses in Vietnam and threatened by a rapidly expanding Indonesia the government decides it needs to have a forward base in case the dominos start to fall. PNG is declared a territory of australia "In Perpituity" and basically becomes a police state ala East Timor under the Indonesians.

Well the thing with these two points is a couple of things have to change back in Australia. First of all Australia isn't involved in Vietnam. And secondly you've got to take out the Whitlam ALP government & the Fraser Coalition government. Although the ALP & the Coalition may have hated each other in the 1970s & 1980s, both shared the same policy of letting PNG have its independence. So you've got to have a lot of PODs before PNG comes in as an Australian state.

What's more likely is that, in the aftermath of Indonesia's takeover of East Timor with no challenge at all coming from Australia, a border war starts between a nearly independent PNG & an agressive Indonesia in 1976. It soon intensifies with a full Indonesian invasion not long afterwards. Australia, suffering from Vietnam & still unstable thanks to the Dismissal, would probably be in no position to stop Indonesia successfully taking over PNG save for islands like Bougainville etc.