Osman Reborn; The Survival of Ottoman Democracy [An Ottoman TL set in the 1900s]

[Nenshou Yuuki]

thanks for the links!

I recommend checking out his channels, the main Time Ghost channel has a Between the Wars series that detailed the years leading up to ww2.

He has a WW2 channel where he detail the events of the war week by week, same as the Great War channel. He also does biographies and there's a series called War Against Humanity which is hosted by Spartacus and goes over the war crimes committed by the various nations involved in the war. There are also various special episodes going over other things that can't be covered by regular episodes.

He also crossed over with Sabaton to explain the history behind their songs.

The Great War
Time Ghost
World War II
Sabaton History

 

[Sarthak]

Chapter 20: War Waits For No One

***

“Austria-Hungary was the second fastest growing economy in the world when the Great War broke out. It was the largest conductor industrial manufactory of the world, and housed the important industrial estates of Bohemia, Galicia and Styria, which made up around a fifth of the total industrial capacity of mainland Europe, and was an industrial giant on its own two feet. Its economy was robust and both Karl von Sturgkh, the Minister-President of Cisleithania and Istvan Tisza, the Prime Minister of Hungary led powerful economic reforms basing their economic policies on the English School of Economics, creating a mix of a free trading and protectionist economy, one which worked well within the scenario of the Austro-Hungarian economy.

Hungarian Prime Minister Istvan Tisza​

As such, when war broke out, it was obvious to many that Austria-Hungary was a partner that was only joining the war very very reluctantly. Franz Joseph I reportedly got upset that the Habsburg Monarchy was being dragged into a war which he called a solely Franco-German Affair, and the heir to the Habsburg throne, Franz Ferdinand had reportedly ranted and raved in anger in Vienna for three days straight when war was declared on Russia, stating that the war was lunacy of the highest kind. Karl von Sturgkh was willing to join the war however, as he feared that not honoring the Triple Alliance would see Austria-Hungary dangerously diplomatically isolated from the rest of the Great Powers, and that was something he could not abide by. He was also confident in the Austro-Hungarian Army as it only had to deal with a singular front with Russia, and could afford to send some token forces to the Franco-German front and the Alpine front with the Italians. The Austro-Hungarians deemed their most high participation in the western theatre to be in the Mediterranean where they would group with the Italian Navy and try to wrest control of the sea from the Royal Navy and the French Navy, as combined the two navies were up to the task.

Prime Minister Istvan Tisza on the other hand, was not sure about going to war at all and the Hungarian cabinet stalled the Austro-Hungarian government for a long time, trying to avert the Austro-Hungarian entry into the war. Tisza too was worried about being diplomatically isolated, however he was even more worried about adding more Slavic territories in the empire, which would destroy the equilibrium that had been formed in the empire as an aftermath of the 1908 Bosnian Annexation, and could spell its doom. Tisza was also worried that his opponents would use this war as a catalyst to expand suffrage into the Hungarian portion of the empire, like that of the Austrian half of the empire something which Tisza had fought against during his entire premiership. Third and finally he was worried about Romania. Romania, on paper was an Austrian ally, however in reality remained a foe of the Habsburg Monarchy, having its eyes covet Transylvania every time it could.

Austrian Chief of General Staff Viktor Dankl. ​

Finally after hushed negotiations and convincing apparatus’s he acquiesced to war, and the Austro-Hungarian government declared war soon after. Austria’s main participation was of course to lie against Russia. The German border with Russia was frightening lose, as von Bulow diverted troops to France to fight a ‘swift’ war over there. As such the main responsibility to fight against the Russians fell to Austrian Chief of General Staff Viktor Dankl. Dankl was more attuned to a defensive strategy, however the dangerously numerically inferior German border forced him to change strategy and he decided to go on a small offensive to deter the Russians from invading the German lands.

Dankl established his headquarters in Przemysl Fortress in Galicia, close to the front, and the armies under his command included von Bohm’s 1st Army, the I, V, and X Corps, 2 cavalry divisions, and an infantry brigade. North of his headquarters, there was the 4th Army commanded by Auffenberg with the II, VI, IX, XVII Corps commanding 9 infantry divisions, and 2 cavalry divisions. East of his position was the 3rd Army commanded by Brudermann, consisting of the III, XI, and XIV Corps consisting of 18 infantry divisions and 4 cavalry divisions. Von Falkenfeld also commanded an army group consisting of 2 infantry divisions and 1 cavalry division alongside the 3rd army to form its rear action. Kovess commanded the XII Corps on the eastern flank, to guard the Austrian supply lines in the region. Meanwhile the Russian Southwestern Front was under the command of the general Nikolai Iudovich Ivanov. Ivanonv’s forces consisted of Saltza’s 4th Army consisting of the Grenadier Corps, the XIV, XVI Corps of 6 infantry divisions, 3 cavalry divisions and an infantry and cavalry brigade each supplemented by an artillery brigade. To the east was Plehve’s 5th army consisting of the V, XVII, XIX, and XXV Corps consisting of 10 infantry divisions and 5 cavalry divisions. Further to the east laid Nikolai Ruzsky’s 3rd Army commanding the IX, X, XI, and XXI corps consisting of 12 infantry divisions and 4 cavalry divisions. On the Russian eastern flanks lay Aleksei Brusilov’s 8th Army consisting of the VII, VIII, XII, and XXIV Corps of 10 infantry and 5 cavalry divisions. The Russian’s battle plan, based on information provided by the infamous spy Alfred Redl assumed the Austro-Hungarian concentration of forces to be on the eastern side of the River San.

Going into the Battle of Krasnik, the Austro-Hungarian Army enjoyed tow distinct advantages over their Russian counterpart: numerical superiority and a batter strategic. The 1st Army enjoyed a numerical advantage of 10 and a half infantry and two cavalry divisions to Baron Salza’s 6 and a half infantry divisions and 3 cavalry divisions. Chief of Staff Dankl’s orders only expanded the K.u.K’s advantage as he ordered a concentration of forces further west than Ivanov and Russian Chief of Staff, General Alexeyev had expected, as they still followed through with Redl’s information, which by this point under Dankl was becoming obsolete.

On March 22, Alexeyev issued orders to the 4th and 5th Armies in an attempt to improve their positions in the crash course they were now headed towards aimed at a larger flanking pair of armies. While these orders probably saved the Russian 4th Army from a defeat from which it could never recover from, it failed to change the nearly pre-ordained outcome of the battle, as the Russians fell into the Habsburg trap.

a painting of the Battle of Krasnik. ​

On the 23rd of March, at around 9 am, the Austrian 1st army’s I Corps encountered the 4th Russian Army’s XIV Corps, near Zaklikow, while the Austro-Hungarian 3rd Cavalry division engaged the Russian 13th Cavalry division further to the west. The V corps of the Austrian 1st Army managed to reach the battlefield and was able enough to secure Polichna by the end of the day. By the end of the day, the Russian 4th Army’s XIV Corps was being driven back in disarray, exposing the entire western flank of the Russian Southwestern Front. On the 24th of March, the Russian 4th Army’s Grenadier Corps and XVI Corps continued their advance towards the south completely unaware of the danger enveloping them slowly and steadily as Ivanov’s order to hold their position was not relayed in time, while the Russian 5th Army turned on the Austro-Hungarian flanks to attack. The Russian corps encountered the Austrian V and X corps, fighting most of the day until late into the evening, by which point the Russians had to retreat from Krasnik. Salza withdrew his army to Lublin in the dead of night, abandoning the battle. The battle saw around 20,000 Austro-Hungarian casualties in the first great battle of the eastern front, whilst the Russians suffered twice and more casualties as they took 41,000 casualties during the battle. It would symbolize the Austro-Hungarian struggle for dominance in Poland and Galicia for the next few years to come.” The Habsburg Empire: Archduchy To Empire To Archduchy. Salzburg Press, 1999.

“Down in the south the Russians were taking a beating from the Austrians and Hungarians as the Habsburg Monarchy secured its border and was planning on diverting Russian attention to itself to protect its german ally. However at the same time, the Russians were advancing towards the Germans thinly defended border, or more importantly East Prussia. To this end, Schlieffen had predicted in 1897 that a mobile operation on interior lines using railways to mass forces against one Russian army and then destroying it before it could retreat would be a prudent idea. As a result every German general staff officer in East Prussia knew how to respond to a Russian invasion or offensive with this in mind.

The invasion was led by two Russian armies, the 1st Army consisting of 7 infantry divisions, 6 cavalry divisions and 500 guns under the command of general Paul von Rennenkampf, and the 2nd Army led by Alexander Samsonov consisting of 11 infantry divisions and 3 cavalry divisions aided by an overwhelming 750 guns. They would be confronted by the German 8th Army led by General Maximilian von Prittwitz, consisting of 14 infantry divisions and 1 cavalry divisions accompanied by 1000 guns.

Much to the surprise of the Germans, Austrians and even their allies in the west, France and Britain, Russia was able to mobilize into an invasion of East Prussia quite quickly. Any invasion of Prussia would be an important blow to the German morale, and if it fell, then it would be a blow from which the Germans would never recover from. Kaiser Wilhelm II famously stated before the invasion “I would be loath to hand over Konigsberg to the Russians than I would be to hand over Berlin to the French and English.”

East Prussia was the historical heart of the Kingdom of Prussia and the German Empire. It needed to be defended earnestly. The two Russian armies entered East Prussia on March 14th, 1915. The first battle to take place on the East Prussian front would be the Battle of Stalluponen. The Germans under the command of Hermann von Francois conducted a successful counterattack against four Russian infantry divisions from different infantry corps, which heavy outnumbered them but were separated from each other, creating a gap between the 27th and 40th Infantry Divisions which was exploited by von Francois to push the Russians back before retreating in good order. It was a minor German victory however did little to upset the Russian timetable, as the Russian armies converged and grouped up with one another.

Maximilian von Prittwitz ​

As it was becoming known that the Russians were going to invade East Prussia truly in earnest the Germans became hasty in their attempt to counter attack. General Maximilian von Prittwitz’s aerial reconnaissance had reported to him that there existed a gap between the converging Russian 1st and 2nd Armies and General von Francois’s scouts informed the German army that the 1st Army’s northern flank was exposed, making them ripe for counter attack. Prittwitz reluctantly agreed to attack, stating “I Corps made a soup for us, and we will now have to eat it up.”

On the 20th of March, the Battle of Gumbinnen began as the German 2nd Infantry division flanked the Russian 28th and 29th Infantry Divisions by advancing through the Zulllkinner forest. The Germans then engaged the Russians and the Germans inflicted heavy casualties, of around 50% on the Russian infantry regiments coming at them, capturing Mallwischken in the process. To the south, August von Mackensen and his XVII corps and Below’s I Reserve Corps were moving and not ready for combat. Hearing of the 2nd Division’s attack in the north however, Mackensen’s 35th and 26th Infantry divisions attacked Rennenkampf’s III Corps. However Below was not able to join in this attack on noon. The Russians in this area were well-reinforced by their upgraded logistical supply, and knew that an attack was extremely possible, so they had spent the time preparing for an assault by moving their heavy artillery in suitable positions. At first the Germans advanced deep in Russian lines, but it faltered immediately as the Russian heavy guns opened fire and the Russians were able to turn the German flanks and forced the enemy to retreat in disorder into the Insterburg-Angerburg lines, leaving 6,000 prisoners to the Russians. Meanwhile Below’s I Reserve Corps instead of attacking Goldap as ordered by Prittwitz, turned north to help Mackensen. His exposed flank was then attacked by the Russian 30th infantry division and was unable to aid Mackensen. The German 3rd Reserve Division commanded by Curt von Morgen arrived on the scene to form a rearguard to allow the rest of the Germans to retreat in good order.

Russian occupied East Prussia. ​

The Russian invasion of East Prussia however stalled when news of the defeat to the Austrians arrived north, and the transfer of units took place. Nonetheless, the Russians were now in command of around 15% to 20% of East Prussia, and they weren’t going anywhere.” Imperial Russia in the Great War, Osprey Publishing, 2019.

“Meanwhile during the Balkan Wars, two different battles were taking place. Mehmed Essat Pasha, a popular general who was a competent administrator and military governor, was given command of the Ottoman 3rd Army, consisting of the V, VI and VII Corps commanded by Said Pasha, Cavit Pasha and Fethi Pasha respectively. When war broke out, Mehmed Essat Pasha’s forces were the first in the region to mobilize in proper order, and as such they were the most battle ready as the Ottoman railway system worked overtime to bring resources and supplies to the army from Constantinople. Meanwhile the Royal Serbian Army plan was to destroy the Ottoman Army in a decisive battle before the Ottomans could complete the full mobilization of their reserves in the Balkans, and concentrate their forces. The Serbians assumed that the Ottoman forces would be deployed in a defensive manner in the valley of Vardar, on the strategically important plateau of Ovce Pole. The Serbian commander in chief, General Radomir Putnik made it his aim to double envelope the Ottoman Army by using the three armies under his command, the 1st Army led by Crown Prince Alexander, the 2nd Army led by Stepa Stepanovic, and the 3rd Army led by Bozidar Jankovic.

Mehmed Essat Pasha. ​

Even before war began on March 31st, skirmishes had broken out between the active personnel of Mehmed Essat Pasha’s forces near the border as the Toplica Group of the Serbian 3rd Army and Serbian Chetniks acting on their own attacked small ottoman forces near the region. The Ottomans believing the attacks to be the work of bandits before war broke out ironically arrested the chetniks using the police gendarmerie and and imprisoned them giving banditry charges to the confused Serbian Chetniks. However on the evening of March 31st, as war was declared, the Serbian 1st Army crossed the border, and on April 5th, reached the outskirts of Kumanovo.

At the other side, Mehmed Essat Pasha decided to take a risk and decided to settle for an offensive. He knew he was outnumbered, however wished to surprise the enemy and push them backwards in a decisive battle. On the evening of the 7th of April, the Ottoman 3rd Army, also known as the Vardar Army, gathered in the Valley of Pcinja River. Ottoman codebreakers and information intelligence had managed to gather and provide Mehmed Essad of the total disposition of Serbian forces, however the Serbians knew nothing of the Ottomans, and neither did they know that the Ottomans were going to give battle exactly one week later. Not expecting an attack, the Serbs did little to fortify their positions, which were topographically strong. Still, only two out of the five infantry divisions were deployed in the frontal positions, and the Danube I Division was deployed onto the left wing and flanks, whilst the cavalry division and the Morava Division I was deployed to the right wing and flanks. The left flank, Mehmed Essat Pasha concluded was particularly vulnerable, because of Srtevica, an important topographical position, was defended by militias instead of the actual Serbian army itself.

On the night of the 13th of April, 1915, the Ottomans began to form their positions in the dead of night, hiding their movements from the Serbs. The V corps under Said Pasha was ordered to fall onto the Serbian left flank and the VII Corps formed the center of the Ottoman line, whilst the VI Corps remained on the right flank as reserve.

The morning of the 14th of April was foggy, and reconnaissance could not be performed for fear of lack of coordination and visibility. On the Serbian left flank, observers noticed the troops of the Ottoman 17th Infantry Division moving, however mistook them for the Ottoman battering withdrawing from Stracin. Troops of the Danube Division I tried to capture this ‘battery’ but where surprised to find an entire division of troops and were mowed down in surprise, forcing the Serbians to retreat. Mehmed Essat then ordered the V Corps to fall on the Serbian left flank, this time coordinated with artillery support, and with 5 Ottoman bombers from the Monastir detachment. The combined arms approach broke the irregular militias who slinked off into the countryside withdrawing from the battle, forcing the Serbians to detach a division from their center to plug in the gap that had formed in the left flank of their forces.

Said Pasha soon found out that the 18th Serbian Infantry Regiment which was guarding a mountain pass on the left flank to be wavering and without waiting for orders, attacked at the pass utilizing his military autonomy to justify his actions later on, and managed to drive the Serbians out of the mountain pass in the region, utilizing his mountaineer regiments who were suited to fight in the terrain to push the Serbians out. However by this point the V corps was becoming dangerously low on ammunition as the combined arms approach, certainly a modern approach, was extremely taxing on the Ottoman logistics and supply system. It was at this moment, the VII Corps and the VI Corps started its attack on the Morava Division I in the Serbian center to distract the Serbians, whilst allowing the V Corps to resupply from small train carriages coming from Uksub. The Morava Division I was prepared for an Ottoman attack, and managed to defend its position after hearing of the fighting to the east. After initial Ottoman progress, the Serbians counterattacked and pushed them back to their original positions. After the Serbian counterattack the Serbs kept the Ottoman center checked by well organized artillery fire until the end of the day.

The Serbian rear echelon divisions, consisting of the Danube Division II, and Drina Division I in the center and Timok Division II on the right, and the army artillery were not informed about the combat operations taking place. They remained in the rear of the battle without participating at all. The Serbians as night fell deployed the Danube Division II and Drina Division I to the rapidly collapsing left flank as they prepared to fight another day.

The entire night was filled with artillery bombardments as both sides bombarded the other with shells trying to oust the other from their positions. The Ottomans held a distinct advantage in this regards, as the Ottoman airplanes told the Ottoman gunners exactly where to fire, and the Ottoman bombers let their bombs fall on Serbian positions. The Ottoman bombers did more than just senseless bombing however. They also bombed the roads being utilized by the Serbs to regroup and resupply and hampered the Serbian supply system again.

Serbian artillery during the battle. ​

Reinforced throughout the night with extra supplies, the Ottomans at 9:30 the next day on April 15th, counter attacked and the V Corps broke through the heavily battered Drina Division I and managed to outflank of the Danube Division II as a result. This attack was an astounding success and the Serbian left flank collapsed completely, and now the center of the Serbian forces led by Prince Alexander was exposed completely. The Serbian Center then formed rearguard lines and managed to retreat north to group up with the Serbian reservists in the north, fleeing the Battle of Kumanovo ending it in decisive Ottoman victory.

Ottoman troops during the Battle of Kumanovo​

Mehmed Essat Pasha, who during this time had not earned the name of Pasha, was conferred the title for his victory and his modern application of combined arms attack and fast maneuvering attacks were noted by the Ottoman General Staff. The Battle of Kumanovo ending in decisive Ottoman victory and staved off a Serbian invasion of Vardar Macedonia and Kosovo for the time being, resulting in ~5,000 casualties on both sides of the battlefield. The only problem was that the Ottomans could afford such casualties, the Serbs…..could not.” Mehmed Essat Pasha: Lion of the Danube; A Biography, Vardar Publishing, 2016.

“Meanwhile however, whilst the Ottomans had secured great victories against both Bulgaria and Serbia, the Montenegrins decided to upend the Ottoman string of victories and defeated the Ottomans at the Battle of Korita and the Battle of Tamare. An Ottoman army around 20,000 strong consisting of the 20th Infantry Division was led by Halepli Zeki Pasha and Zeki Pasha decided to go into a small probing action into Montenegrin territory on the 18th of April. He crossed the Cemi river with the rest of the 20,000 troops and entered Montenegrin territory near Korita, only to find himself facing the entire Montenegrin army of around 25,000 men led by King Nicholas I himself.

Surprised and disoriented to the extreme, King Nicholas I managed to regroup his army before Zeki Pasha could do the same and launched a pincer attack on the 20th Infantry Division and managed to force the Ottomans to retreat. However as the Ottomans retreated back to their side of the border, Nicholas I managed to send 4 regiments to flank the Ottoman positions, and made a portion of the Ottoman detachment encircled and without supply and communications. Zeki Pasha had no choice but to leave the 2,000 encircled troops to their fate as he retreated back into Ottoman territory. The 2,000 troops were either all killed, or captured and taken prisoner of war, thus ending the Battle of Korita in Ottoman defeat.

Nicholas I of Montenegro. ​

Nicholas I emboldened by this victory decided to invade Ottoman Albania and on the 23rd of April, left Montenegrin territory and invaded Ottoman Albania with 25,000 troops. At the border mountain pass of Tamare, the Ottoman 20th Infantry Division, or what was left of it anyway, decided to make a stand and defend its position. However Zeki Pasha had chosen this spot to stand against the enemy extremely badly. The mountain pass was detached from the outside world, and supply situation in a rural mountain area was basically non-existent. The Montenegrins decided to bypass the 20th Division and marched towards the southwest intending to capture Stare on the road to Koplik whilst the rest of the army decided to surround the 15,000 Ottoman troops in Tamare and decided to starve and fight their way in to get an Ottoman surrender there. A fierce melee consumed the mountain passes of tamare as the Ottomans and Montenegrins duked their strength against each other, however the tide of the Battle of Tamare had turned in favor of the Montenegrins and the mountain pass soon fell to the Montenegrins with only half of the troops managing to escape full encirclement and capture.

Nicholas I was now ready to make his move.” Nicholas I of Montenegro: A Biography, 2000

“The Ottoman Black Sea Fleet had decided to blockade Bulgaria on the declaration of war, and the four destroyers, 1 cruiser and 1 protected cruiser and 8 gunboats that the Black Sea fleet consisted formed the vanguard of this blockading force. The Bulgarian navy was really much of a threat, however a new plan brewing in Constantinople forced Mehmed Ciballi Bey, the Minister of the Navy to order Muhammad Pasha, an Arab-Greek fleet commander of the Black Sea Fleet to sally out of Sinop and deal a blow from which the Bulgarian navy could not recover from.

The Bulgarian ‘navy’ consisting of the Letyashi, Smeli, Strogi and Drazki which were all motor torpedo boats in reality. All other Bulgarian ships were all gunboats and present in Lake Burgas or in the Danube River, with the border in Romania. Led by the cruiser Hamidiye the Ottoman Black Sea fleet arrived at Cape Burgas, some 30 kilometers east of the port of Burgas itself which worried the Bulgarians, which sent the four torpedo boats to attack the Ottomans to deter them from entering Burgas water. Led by Captain Dimitar Dobrev, the Bulgarians first sent signals asking the Ottomans to withdraw, however since no answer came, the Bulgarians let loose torpedoes onto the Ottoman ships. Two Ottoman gunboats were struck by the torpedoes and one sank however the opening with the torpedo shot allowed the Hamidiye, which was hidden from sight from the Bulgarian due to morning mist on the 26th of April, to emerge from the fog and fire close range volleys at the Bulgarian torpedo boats. The Strogi was struck and it sank beneath the waves soon enough. Captain Dimitar Dobrev had thought that he was engaging only a few gunboats and two destroyers, however as the morning mist lifted, he found himself engaging a massive Ottoman naval force in comparison to his own. He decided to retreat and began to detach the naval forces from the battle, and began to retreat back to Burgas Harbor. However this was not to be. Ottoman gunboats had sallied forward during the earlier melee and now the Bulgarians would have to fight their way through with 3 torpedo boats. The Hamidiye and the three destroyers opened fire from behind and struck the boats a few time, and with the Ottoman torpedo boats assisting the attack against the Bulgarian ships, the ships soon capsized and sank beneath the waves, making around 90 sailors killed in combat, whilst around 27 sailors were picked up by the Ottomans and then taken as Prisoner of War.

Ottoman Cruiser Hamidiye before the battle. ​

The Battle of Cape Burgas in comparison to the great naval battles going on in the Great War, was a small affair, however it removed the Bulgarian Navy as a tangible threat (not that it was one, however the Ottomans needed to be absolutely sure). As the battle ended in the favor of the Ottomans, the Ottoman Ministry of War, began to look in favor of a marine landing in Burgas, some 40,000 strong from the Anatolian armies to outflank the Bulgarians and throw them out of the war as soon as humanely possible.” Ottoman Naval History in the 20th Century, Osprey Publishing, 2008.

 

[Sarthak]

A mixture of losses and victories, and the Ottomans planning something big! Any predictions?

 

[Sarthak]

Greece seems all set to profit massively as long as they keep neutral. Sure the nationalists are going to be screaming about this being their chance to 'free' the Greeks under the Ottomans, but the treaty (with accompanying land transfers) effectively defangs them as long as the trade interests and moderates are working together (one because the Ottomans are a huge, seemingly stable market [which incidentally is now going on a war footing, lowering production of civilian goods and food which the Greeks can step in for and make lots and lots of money doing] and the moderates because they don't want to send a generation of men to die knowing that even if they win they'll probably have another war with the other Balkan powers because of their overlapping claims).

Indeed the ottomans going on war footing ironically aids the Greek economy a whole lot.

As for Romania, they'll be courted by the Entente with the idea of Transylvania and the Germans with their dynastic ties. But with their being two separate wars might complicate things. Romania is always going to want Transylvania, but they also have some territorial claims on Bulgaria. Given the separate wars, I think that if the Balkan war goes badly for Bulgaria then Romania will jump them for Dobrudja. What happens afterwards depends on their performance in that war, if the Romanians win (or at least manage to hold their own) then Romania will be emboldened and probably join the Entente with the goal of gaining Transylvania, if they lose Romania will probably reassess things and only jump in if things look to be going particularly badly for the Central Powers. Either way, I expect the Balkan War to be the faster moving war [if only because the countries involved are less industrialized and capable of sustained conflict] and thus the one Romania will involve itself in first.

Indeed, Romania is in a very very interesting position amidst the Great War, and the Balkan War.

 

[Sarthak]

I think Romania will go for Bulgaria and join the Balkans war rather then Great war.
And Greek will profit from neutrality (though leaning towards Ottomans)

The Romanians will be deliberating a lot. Any signs of weakness from either Austria, Bulgaria or Russia, and they will pounce.

 

[Sarthak]

The smart move for Romania is to jump on Bulgaria during the Balkan war to get Southern Dobrudja, and then wait until it's clear whether the Entente or Central Powers will win and join on that side for either Transylvania or Bessarabia.

That would indeed be very smart

 

[Sarthak]

Well this WW1 is certainly going to be a very protected war, unlike the 1914 slaughter almost everyone has A almost one front war for now (Austria, Russia,) with the exception of France who has Italy attacking.

True enough

Russia's history has certainly changed, not only with more regiments being raised and borders fortified, the Russian empire still has the breadbaskets of Ukraine, Poland to feed it's people, strange how over a dozen nations might not come into being now.

Russia didn't loose Ukraine until 1916 otl either, so not really much of a difference. It is the military reforms being completed ittl that will make a heavy difference for the Russians throughout the war

Still Germany while lost some land is definitely not out of the game now given France did not fold in WW1 and more prepared Austria Hungary is extremely valuable for eastern front.

They are indeed not out of the game

Well looks like everyone will be sucking up their diplomates to try and bring more nations into their sides.

That they will.

 

[Sarthak]

love to see Greece and the Ottamans (plus Romania) on the same side......

Romania is still very much in the air.

 

[Sarthak]

Romania be like 'nice' so they will true victor here.

They stand to win from all sides ittl. so yeah they are the true victors here i guess

 

[Sarthak]

Hey Sarthaka, how strong is the Greek Navy at the moment?

That will be expanded upon in a new chapter.

 

[Sarthak]

Is it? The Serbs turned against the Ottomans in hopes of gaining a secure outlet to the sea. Russia has just gone to war with Austria. A very good argument can be made that Serbia would be looking north not south...

They are trying to secure an outlet to the sea as well, however a more nationalistic plea to the population would of course be 'liberation' and all that. Serbia intends to 'liberate' its serbian territory before moving towards its 'yugoslavist' ideals towards the north.

You are writing an Ottoman TL understandably, but no way the Greeks would let the Ottomans gain naval superiority, particularly since they have no economic reason not to. By this time the Greeks will have their own pair of (likely US made) super-dreadnoughts. After all given the likely British-Greek alliance by 1915, the Greek navy is a needed factor in the balance with Italy and Austria-Hungary as well with the British encouraging it...

Not exactly. The Ottoman and Greek navies are on equal footing with each other as of this moment, more or less, however equal footing does not guarantee that Greece can win (neither does it guarantee that the Ottomans can win in a naval confrontation) however the chances for the Ottomans to win have become far greater. With the expansion of Ottoman dockyards, the Ottomans can reinforce the balkans through the black sea as well, which the Greeks cannot enter because the Darnedelle defenses, thus making Greece doubtful of its ability to stop Ottoman reinforcements.

Is it? The Ottomans offered more of Epirus, including Ioannina in 1912 if memory serves. And since both Lemnos and Lesvos are out what north Aegean islands are we talking about? The Sporades are already Greek. IMO Lesbos, Samos and Chios coupled by provisions that they remain demilitarised looks pretty reasonable.

For the moment, gaining the important port of Preveza, the chokepoint of the Tymfala Corridor and the reversal of humiliation of 1897 by gaining the territories back are more than enough for nationalists *for the moment* however yeah problems will arrive in the future.

If I may propose another term, by now the previously mentioned British-Greek negotiations for the transfer of Cyprus in exchange for naval basing rights in western Greece should be even further along and with both Italy and Austria Hungary at war with Britain just became much more urgent... for the British. Ottoman consent wouldn't hurt...

The British will bring that up in the future, trying to butter Greece up to join the entente. Saving that part for the future.

 

[Sarthak]

I recommend checking out his channels, the main Time Ghost channel has a Between the Wars series that detailed the years leading up to ww2.

He has a WW2 channel where he detail the events of the war week by week, same as the Great War channel. He also does biographies and there's a series called War Against Humanity which is hosted by Spartacus and goes over the war crimes committed by the various nations involved in the war. There are also various special episodes going over other things that can't be covered by regular episodes.

He also crossed over with Sabaton to explain the history behind their songs.

The Great War
Time Ghost
World War II
Sabaton History

Indeed his channels are very very informative.

 

[Sarthak]

any predictions on the wider war with these new developments?

 

[A Repentant Heretic]

any predictions on the wider war with these new developments?

No idea about how WW1 may go. So far it doesn't seem that different from OTL WW1. It really depends on how the German invasion through Belgium may go.

On the Balkan, I think Ottoman will suffer losses in Albania and North Macedonia, but I see the stalemate coming soon. The problem for Serbia-Montenegro-Bulgaria is that I doubt they will get any great power benefactors until later since both Italy and Russia are busy right now.

 

[Aghstadian]

Speaking of Romania and the war, what is the situation of Ada Kaleh (Ottoman exclave in Danube) ? Do Serbia even bother try to occupy it? The island future probably will be ceded to Romania as cheap bargain to throw in as part of larger deal to entice them to join on Ottoman side but i hope the community on island will survive (otl the dam pretty much submerged it)

To the wider war itself seem everything still up in the air for now. But a mistake, blunder, or accident can change the situation drastically. Also I'm interested to see how the war will unfold outside Europe and Colonial subjects view of the war.

 

[Sarthak]

No idea about how WW1 may go. So far it doesn't seem that different from OTL WW1. It really depends on how the German invasion through Belgium may go.

It is going differently in all regards. France has a hold on Alsace, Russia has a hold on East Prussia and the Austrians are pushing.

On the Balkan, I think Ottoman will suffer losses in Albania and North Macedonia, but I see the stalemate coming soon. The problem for Serbia-Montenegro-Bulgaria is that I doubt they will get any great power benefactors until later since both Italy and Russia are busy right now.

Albania, probably, Kumanovo being an ottoman victory means the Ottomans are going to secure Northern Macedonia soon enough

 

[Sarthak]

Speaking of Romania and the war, what is the situation of Ada Kaleh (Ottoman exclave in Danube) ? Do Serbia even bother try to occupy it? The island future probably will be ceded to Romania as cheap bargain to throw in as part of larger deal to entice them to join on Ottoman side but i hope the community on island will survive (otl the dam pretty much submerged it)

Ada Kalen admittedly will feature on prominently in a future episode of this timeline
It is certainly going to be interesting

To the wider war itself seem everything still up in the air for now. But a mistake, blunder, or accident can change the situation drastically. Also I'm interested to see how the war will unfold outside Europe and Colonial subjects view of the war.

indeed, a mistake could change things radically
the colonial situation is something i have neglected admittedly, but i assure that will soon change

 

[Gman]

That will be expanded upon in a new chapter.

Excellent

 

[Sarthak]

Excellent

don't worry it will come!

 

[Lascaris]

Not exactly. The Ottoman and Greek navies are on equal footing with each other as of this moment, more or less, however equal footing does not guarantee that Greece can win (neither does it guarantee that the Ottomans can win in a naval confrontation) however the chances for the Ottomans to win have become far greater. With the expansion of Ottoman dockyards, the Ottomans can reinforce the balkans through the black sea as well, which the Greeks cannot enter because the Darnedelle defenses, thus making Greece doubtful of its ability to stop Ottoman reinforcements.

I only say that the, apparently existing, Greek battleships have not be specifically mentioned... perhaps I should offer a guest naval post if you'll take one.