How's the Start?


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Will this TTL Ottoman empire still be pro German or will it be pro British changing how it's armies and navies are trained and supplied since OTL most of their military supplies were from Germany and hopefully they avoid losing the balkan wars that cost them most of the modern equipment they had including artillery

 
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Will this TTL Ottoman empire still be pro German or will it be pro British changing how it's armies and navies are trained and supplied since OTL most of their military supplies were from Germany and hopefully they avoid losing the balkan wars that cost them most of the modern equipment they had including artillery

That is for the future. Germany and Britain is still fighting for influence in the OE right now.
 
Will this TTL Ottoman empire still be pro German or will it be pro British changing how it's armies and navies are trained and supplied since OTL most of their military supplies were from Germany and hopefully they avoid losing the balkan wars that cost them most of the modern equipment they had including artillery

I honestly hope the empire remain neutral possible blockade Russia just to get a revolution here and then get the Caucasus at the end of the war , let’s let the European massacre each other meanwhile the empire will profit of the peace to strengthen itself and possibly support independence movement in the post war world .
 
I honestly hope the empire remain neutral possible blockade Russia just to get a revolution here and then get the Caucasus at the end of the war , let’s let the European massacre each other meanwhile the empire will profit of the peace to strengthen itself and possibly support independence movement in the post war world .
of course they could just jump in the last minute to get some of the spoils.
 
Chapter 1: The Battle for Tripoli and the Naval Detachment.
Chapter 1: The Battle for Tripoli and the Naval Detachment.

***

“The Kingdom of Italy, seeking to conquer Libya from the Ottoman Empire, declared War on the Ottoman Empire on 29th September, 1911 starting the Italo-Ottoman War. After the declaration of war, an Italian naval squadron under Admiral Luigi Faravelli was sent to patrol the Libyan coast, especially the waters of Tripoli, as the government of Italy wished to bombard the coastal forts of Tripoli, which may have become a huge impediment to any Italian amphibious attack on the city. However Faravelli refrained from doing this, as he feared that it would spark retaliation against the European population of the city by the local Arabs. Faravelli offered to take foreign citizens aboard his ships, however the consuls of the neutral countries gave replies stating that they felt protected and secured enough by the Ottoman authorities, therefore only Italian citizens were evacuated from the city aboard Faravelli’s ships.


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Admiral Faravelli.

Within the city itself, Neshat Bey, the commander-in-chief of the city had around 3000 of the garrison troops that were placed within the city at all times, however the situation was less than optimal for him, as he did not exactly have huge stores of weapons. The ships Derna and Smyrna had restocked the coastal fortresses of the city however, and most of the reinforcements sent by the Ottoman government were mainly sent to Derna, Tobruk and Benghazi which were closer to the Ottoman Empire and easier to supply. His 3,000 troops were also ill-trained and not exactly professionals. They were well-equipped however and Neshat Bey would use that to his advantage, in the best manner that he could.


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one of the smaller guns at Fort Hamidiye.

On the 2nd of October 1911, the Italian squadron was deployed in front of Tripoli Harbor in anticipation of the arrival of an expeditionary force from Italy that would land in Libya, the ships were also tasked with the stoppage of any and all reinforcements from the rest of the Ottoman Empire. Faravelli then demanded the surrender of the Ottoman garrison and in case of a refusal, to commence hostilities immediately. The admiral also complained to the army that the forts guarding the city, Fort Sultaniye and Fort Hamidiye were not only fully stocked, they were also training their guns at the enemy fleet, opposite to what Italian intelligence had told him, meaning that his ships were in danger. He stated that the Italian marines and troops aboard his ships would be insufficient to take the city and protect his squadron, however Rome sent a telegraph urging him to take swift and fast action.


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one of the big naval fort guns of Fort Sultaniye.

Faravelli then invited the Turkish Defterdar, or accountant-general of the city, Ahmed Bessim Bey aboard his flagship, and he commanded Bessim Bey to surrender the city. Bessim Bey refused to do so and instead sought to buy time. He had been under command from Constantinople to garner as much time as possible for the Forts in Tripoli to become fully functional, and he deflected Italian questions, instead claiming that he was unable to contact Constantinople and ask for instructions. During this encounter, Colonel Neshat Bey ordered all but the 1000 troops commanding Fort Hamidiye and Fort Sultaniye (500 for each fort) to retreat from the city and into the barracks at Aziziya about ten kilometers to the south.

With negotiations between Faravelli and Bessim Bey failing, the Italian battleship, Emauele Filiberto followed by the armored cruisers Giuseppe Garibaldi and Carlo Alberto opened fire at the forts and the port at around 15:30 pm on the 3rd of October. However the day that Bessim Bey had managed to buy for the forts were precious and had been used to their full effect and the moment the guns of the ships opened fire, the forts opened fire as well, firing their shells at the Italian squadrons. The only Ottoman warship present in the harbor of Tripoli, the Seyyad also aided the forts by opening fire at the Italian ships before being struck by a shell sent by the Carlo Alberto and sinking in harbor killing several sailors aboard. However the covering fire sent by the Seyyad gained another round of precious time for the forts, and the fort batteries managed to concentrate their fire at Giuseppe Garibaldi and at 16:45 pm, the ship was hit by a barrage of shells from the coastal batteries, and with the sheer volume of the fire, the ship started to tip over sinking beneath the waves. The ship sank slowly, so the majority of the crewmen and marines aboard the ship managed to escape, however the loss of one of their iconic armored cruisers was a blow to the Italian morale.


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The Garibaldi an hour before it was sunk.

However by 17:15 the forts were running out of ammunition, and Neshat Bey ordered that all of the remaining shells were to be transferred to Azizya, where they would use the shells with their artillery guns. By the evening of the 3rd, most of the fort’s weapons had been stripped to be transported to Azizya, and the forts were then allowed to keep a paltry 20% of their original stocks to delay the Italians.

The following day, 4th of October, the Italian squadron bombarded the Ottoman forts again, however with their stocks stripped, the forts only managed to return a small amount of fire, and were unable to stop a small Italian patrol from landing next to Fort Hamidiye. The small garrison left out at the fort surrendered, and the German consul present in the fort, Adrian Tilger, informed the patrol that the majority of the Ottoman troops had abandoned the city and asked them to occupy the city in order to prevent anarchy and looting.

The next day on the 5th of October, the Italian command took the decision to land two regiments of forces into the city under Captain Umberto Cagni. The landing began on 7:30 aided by the battleship Sicilia and by 10 am, the landings were more or less successful as the sapper units quickly took command of the forts Hamidiye and Sultaniye. And by 11 the marketplace of Tripoli was occupied by the Italians and the majority of the city soon fell quickly thereafter. Captain Cagni immediately organized a defensive line in order to safeguard the city. His situation was precarious, and the Italian troops that were his reinforcements were still launching about in Naples Harbor and Palermo Harbor and would not join their brethren in North Africa for another few days.


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Captain Umberto Cagni.

His situation deteriorated however. Neshat Bey ordered an artillery bombardment of the Italian positions to begin and 500 Libyan cavalrymen aided by 1000 Ottoman soldiers of the 6th Infantry Division were sent forward by Neshat Bey to capture Bu Meliana and the wells around the region which supplied the city of Tripoli with water. Tripoli had enough water to feed its civilians, however if the wells around Bu Meliana were captured, then the Italian troops would be sucked out without water and would be caught between the decisions of having no water or looting civilian wells and water stores. The 11th Bersaglieri Regiment was sent forward by Captain Cagni to secure the wells, however the 1500 Ottoman troops got there first and the fighting around the wells was aided by Ottoman gunners who attacked Italian positions, forcing them back into the main city, making the wells fall into the hands of the Ottomans.


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Ottoman troops in Bu Meliana.

And as such, the Battle of Tripoli ended, with a pyrrhic Italian victory, and a tactical Ottoman victory as well. For now, there were 6000 Italian troops in the city, ripe for dying of thirst.” [1]


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- Chapter 3 of The War of Sands: A History of Ottoman Libya by Sir Douglass Howe, published in The University of London in 1988.

“In the eastern parts of the Ottoman Empire in North Africa, the Italian landing at Derna and Benghazi were rebuffed by the Ottoman forces, reinforced from the mainland. At Benghazi, the Italian landing attempt was not even attempted by the Italian army after seeing the city filled to the brim by the 4th Infantry Division whilst the landing at Derna was repelled by elements of the 8th Infantry Division, causing a small set of casualties between the two powers.

The only Italian landing that was successful after the first landing at Tripoli was the landing of Italian troops at Al-Khums. The port of Al-Khums was close to Tripoli (only 30 miles east of Tripoli) and was lightly defended by light Libyan irregulars which were pushed back into the interior by the well-armed Italian marines.” [2]

- Chapter 1 of The Ottoman War in Libya by Mustafa Ali Ahmed published in 1996 in the University of Constantinople.

“The once greatest fleet of the Mediterranean Sea, a fleet that once had the capability to even contest the seas with the mighty British Royal Navy, the Ottoman Fleet was a shadow of itself in 1911. And the disadvantage against the Italian navy was clear for all to see. The Ottoman Navy in the Mediterranean wasn’t necessarily obsolete, many were modern ships like the Turgut Reis and Barbaros Hayreddin and most of the ships were in their middle life, and still capable of fighting within their full capacity. However, the Italians had dreadnoughts, and a numerical advantage over the Ottoman Fleet and to some extents, the quality of the Italian sailors were far better than the quality of the Ottoman sailors too.


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The Barbaros Heyreddin, the flagship of the Ottoman Empire, a powerful pre-dreadnought.

Therefore when the Chamber of Deputies contacted Ciballi Tahir Mehmed Bey on September 19, the fleet commander of the Ottoman Navy, they were given the direct answer from Mehmed Bey that the Ottoman Navy was in no condition to even think about attacking the Italian navy head on.

However nonetheless, the British Naval Mission in the Ottoman Empire led by Admiral Hugh Pigot Williams saw an opportunity. Williams knew about the diplomatic tug of war for influence that Germany and Britain was fighting for in the Ottoman Empire, and using the Naval Mission to their advantage in this war could become a benefit for the British influence in the Ottoman Empire, if the Naval Mission was successful in aiding the Ottoman Empire during this war.

Admiral Hugh Pigot Williams met with Mehmed Bey on September 21, and both of the naval commanders sat down to discuss strategy on the matter of the navy. Williams proposed that the 1st and 2nd Fleets in Constantinople be consolidated along with the Smyrna detachment and the Salonika Detachment. This would give the Ottomans the majority of their fleet stationed in the Aegean Sea, and prevent the Italians from conducting any trade interdiction against the Ottoman Empire, thus preserving the Ottoman Empire’s economy throughout the war, and prevent any Italian attack within the Aegean Sea, and Northeastern Mediterranean Sea.


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Admiral Hugh Pigot Williams, the leader of the British Naval Mission in the Ottoman Empire.

The Preveza Detachment that formed the Ottoman Adriatic Fleet was ordered to move towards Beirut, with Williams acknowledging that the Ottomans could do little but attack the Italians with their coastal batteries in the Adriatic. Instead Williams believed that consolidating the Preveza Detachment with the Beirut detachment would create a strong enough fleet in the Eastern Mediterranean to protect the Ottoman coast in the Levant as well. It was in the Red Sea, however where Williams wanted the Ottomans to go on the offensive. The Ottoman ships in the Red Sea were medium tier ships, however capable in their own right and even outnumbered the Italian Red Sea Fleet in the area. Therefore, the Ottoman Red Sea fleet under Korvet Kaptan (Fleet Captain) Hamid Pasha was ordered to blockade the Red Sea to any and all Italian warships or trading ships.

The compilation of these naval plans were called ‘Plan 1’ by Mehmed Bey and on September 25th, as war seemed likely the fleets were ordered to follow the plan. On September 29, the Ottoman destroyer Moha in the Red Sea sank an Italian transport ship carrying 120 troops, killing all aboard. The naval war had started.” [3]

Chapter 19 of A History of the Ottoman Navy by Sir John Rackham published in 1988 in
The University of Oxford.

***

Footnotes:-

[1] – Much of the battle is otl, of course other than the fact that Bey has orders ittl and the forts are active, causing a massive difference in the battle outcome than otl.

[2] – The landing attempt at Benghazi and Derna were lightly defended otl itself, and were many times too weak. The ottoman lack of orders led to the surrender of the cities otl, however that is clearly not the case ittl.

[3] – Historically the Ottoman fleet in 1911 was not bad, it was in fact on many levels capable in its own right, however the sudden attack of the Italians rendered the Ottoman navy incapable of making any plans. As you can see, that is not the case here ittl.


***
 

NoMommsen

Donor
Well, this should be interesting! Look forward to where you take this!
Edit: Will the Armenian Genocide happen ITTL? One hopes not...
It won't happen. Before the 1913 couo that returned the empire into a dictatorship, the Armenians supported the ottoman empire.
... and this despite there HAD already been very similar events like
the Hamidian massacres or
the Adana massacre
... all good reasons for a truely 'respectful' and each other 'supporting' relation between the Armenians and the Ottomans.
 
... and this despite there HAD already been very similar events like
the Hamidian massacres or
the Adana massacre
... all good reasons for a truely 'respectful' and each other 'supporting' relation between the Armenians and the Ottomans.
The Armenian National Assembly of Anatolia was pretty happy when Ibrahim Hakki Pasha paid the victims with massive compensations for the massacre. The Hamidian Massacres happened under Abdul Hamid II and the Armenians certainly did not support Abdul Hamid II, however Mehmed V was very well liked by the Armenians until his inability to stop the Armenian genocide in 1915. The Armenians were one of the most active groups which brought democracy in the empire in 1908. Several democratic cabinet and deputy members were Armenians. They were all of course ousted in the 1913 Coup
 
Right now ? None honestly a ottoman victory in the war always seemed unlikely but the ottoman seem far better prepared here so one can only hope . I’m just curious on how the ottoman would look like in the 60s
a 'victory' for the Ottoman Empire would simply be the pre-war situation. That was certainly possible. Anything else is outside the realms of possibility.
In the 60s, well vastly different.
 
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