Osman I dies as a child

Not sure if this has been asked before, but what do people think the consequences might have been had Osman Gazi, founder of the Ottoman empire, died as a child? What would this mean for the Turkish people, the Byzantine empire and others? Would there be as big a threat to the European nations or not?
 

Deleted member 67076

The Candarids or Germiyanids become the Byzantine Empire's principle threat. The former are mostly a bog standard steppe confederation, the latter are the real threat given they were much more organized than the other beyliks. I don't think the Byzantines are doomed per se, so long as their civil wars are avoided and their energies are focused on crushing threats abroad. You've got just enough time to butterfly Andronikos II's long, disastrous reign. Do that and the empire's in a much better place.

However given you just butterflied away the migration if the Ottoman clan into western Anatolia in the late 1200s, you change quite a lot of the power politics in Anatolia and Rhomania. Lots of different ways this could go about. Kinda hard to tell because of that actually, other than pointing at who becomes the top dog amongst the Western Beyliks. They were more likely to fight each other as they were the Greeks.
 
The Candarids or Germiyanids become the Byzantine Empire's principle threat. The former are mostly a bog standard steppe confederation, the latter are the real threat given they were much more organized than the other beyliks. I don't think the Byzantines are doomed per se, so long as their civil wars are avoided and their energies are focused on crushing threats abroad. You've got just enough time to butterfly Andronikos II's long, disastrous reign. Do that and the empire's in a much better place.

However given you just butterflied away the migration if the Ottoman clan into western Anatolia in the late 1200s, you change quite a lot of the power politics in Anatolia and Rhomania. Lots of different ways this could go about. Kinda hard to tell because of that actually, other than pointing at who becomes the top dog amongst the Western Beyliks. They were more likely to fight each other as they were the Greeks.

Interesting, would a smart Byzantine emperor use that to his advantage to expand?
 
The Candarids or Germiyanids become the Byzantine Empire's principle threat. The former are mostly a bog standard steppe confederation, the latter are the real threat given they were much more organized than the other beyliks. I don't think the Byzantines are doomed per se, so long as their civil wars are avoided and their energies are focused on crushing threats abroad. You've got just enough time to butterfly Andronikos II's long, disastrous reign. Do that and the empire's in a much better place.

However given you just butterflied away the migration if the Ottoman clan into western Anatolia in the late 1200s, you change quite a lot of the power politics in Anatolia and Rhomania. Lots of different ways this could go about. Kinda hard to tell because of that actually, other than pointing at who becomes the top dog amongst the Western Beyliks. They were more likely to fight each other as they were the Greeks.
Also, how might one butterfly Andronikos II's long reign? By having him offed or by having his father live longer?
 

Deleted member 67076

Interesting, would a smart Byzantine emperor use that to his advantage to expand?
Not so much expand as reinforce the position in Anatolia, where the power base and the money is at. The Empire's pretty exhausted at this point and can't really move into new places until their manpower can be replenished.

But if they were willing to, they could probably mop up the various Crusader States in Greece given the right opportunity. Attacking the Beyliks however? Ehhh...

Also, how might one butterfly Andronikos II's long reign? By having him offed or by having his father live longer?
Could just have his older brother not die in 1259, which is close to the time Osman was born interestingly enough. If not, just off him early. He was never popular.
 
It's amazing as those days I was interested about the Ottoman rise.

My sources on Osman and is father are quite poor. I was surprised to find that he was born in 1258, wen his father was 60. He had another 2 brothers but I did not knew if they were older or younger than him, nor too much other infos about them.

What were the inheritance laws among the Turkic tribes back then? Was it primogeniture? Or the heir was simply nominated by the ruler amongy his sons?
Or it was elective?

Do you have som sources on English or French, preferably online?

Thanks

PS: If Osman was out of scene than butterflies flight high!
 
Alright so perhaps Manuel's older son Manuel survives or perhaps Andronikos dies as a child and Constantine his younger brother becomes emperor after him. Consolidation of their states could be quite interesting.
 
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