Everything I've read about the Sentinelese up to now states they have been on the island for tens of thousands of years, possibly as long as 60,000 years, making them one of the longest divergent peoples in history. Yet a New York Times article on the recent killing of a missionary ( https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/23/world/asia/andaman-missionary-john-chau.html) seems to place their arrival much more recently, comparable to say the Maori or the settlers of Madagascar:
Origins of Sentinelese?
- Thread starter Marius Mazzini
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I mean, that's awkward wording that still essentially comports with the idea that they came to the island tens of thousands of years ago. If the article had said that they left Africa less than a thousand years ago, that would be worth complaining about.
The oldest archaeological site so far discovered on the Andaman Islands, the Chauldari midden, only goes back around 2,200 years. We have no direct evidence for human settlement before that.
This article from 2011 does a genetic analysis and posits that Andamanese in general came from Northeast India (between 20,000 +/- 9,000 and 8,000 +/- 4,000 years ago). There's also apparently a language in Nepal that's similar to one in the Andamans. This article from 2008, cited by the first, suggests that the Andamans were peopled no earlier than 24,000 +/- 9,000 years and no later than 12,000 +/- 4,000 years ago.
Both, as well as a few others than they both cite, that the Last Glacial Maximum that occurred between 30,000 and 20,000 years ago (this isn't an estimated range, this is the duration of the peak of the ice age) would have linked the Andamans to the Indian and Burmese mainlands.
Now, obviously, the North Sentinelese have never been subjected to genetic study, and there have been isolated populations found in the past that were completely distinct from their near neighbors. But it seems likely that that's what happened (not a direct path from Africa "a few thousand years ago".
As a sidenote, the Wikipedia article right now is a shitshow full of people citing newspaper articles from yesterday, especially the introductory sections.
Both, as well as a few others than they both cite, that the Last Glacial Maximum that occurred between 30,000 and 20,000 years ago (this isn't an estimated range, this is the duration of the peak of the ice age) would have linked the Andamans to the Indian and Burmese mainlands.
Now, obviously, the North Sentinelese have never been subjected to genetic study, and there have been isolated populations found in the past that were completely distinct from their near neighbors. But it seems likely that that's what happened (not a direct path from Africa "a few thousand years ago".
As a sidenote, the Wikipedia article right now is a shitshow full of people citing newspaper articles from yesterday, especially the introductory sections.
People have been living in that wider archipelago for a very long time (distantly related to Melanesians and Australian natives), but when it comes to the specific island, I'm betting the locals have been there only for centuries or about a millennium. Their ancestors came from one of the nearby islands, possibly seeking refuge after a falling out with the locals or some foreign raiders who attacked the more major islands of the archipelago.
Wow ! Just came across that bit of news now. No offence to this deceased guy, but I feel he should be the Darwin Award winner for 2018. (Apparently, they've already taken note, LOL !
) An island that is off-limits and illegal to visit, natives that don't want any outsiders whatsoever, but he still goes there by hook or crook and thinks he can do missionary activities there ? And wastes almost 300 euros just to get there ? Sorry, that's just stupidity to the max. He only has himself to blame for how he ended up. Given his disparaging words about the natives and the island, I don't think he'd make a good missionary anyway...
Wow ! Just came across that bit of news now. No offence to this deceased guy, but I feel he should be the Darwin Award winner for 2018. (Apparently, they've already taken note, LOL !
) An island that is off-limits and illegal to visit, natives that don't want any outsiders whatsoever, but he still goes there by hook or crook and thinks he can do missionary activities there ? And wastes almost 300 euros just to get there ? Sorry, that's just stupidity to the max. He only has himself to blame for how he ended up. Given his disparaging words about the natives and the island, I don't think he'd make a good missionary anyway...
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I will point out that during the first contact by a British explorer that he brought another native from a nearby island to help with translation and that guy had NO IDEA what the Sentinelese were saying, and that was in the 19th century.
My guess is that the Sentinelese have a different origin than the other peoples of the Andaman Islands, but ultimately it is a question that will probably never be answered.
My guess is that the Sentinelese have a different origin than the other peoples of the Andaman Islands, but ultimately it is a question that will probably never be answered.
mad orc
Banned
People have been living in that wider archipelago for a very long time (distantly related to Melanesians and Australian natives), but when it comes to the specific island, I'm betting the locals have been there only for centuries or about a millennium. Their ancestors came from one of the nearby islands, possibly seeking refuge after a falling out with the locals or some foreign raiders who attacked the more major islands of the archipelago.
Wow ! Just came across that bit of news now. No offence to this deceased guy, but I feel he should be the Darwin Award winner for 2018. (Apparently, they've already taken note, LOL !
I agree.
Source on this? Their language is distinct from the other languages of the islands, and if they've only been there for a few centuries, it's likely one of the expeditions there would have determined their language was Ongan or Great Andamanese. It's likely they've been there for thousands of years, with limited contact with other Andamanese peoples.
Wow ! Just came across that bit of news now. No offence to this deceased guy, but I feel he should be the Darwin Award winner for 2018. (Apparently, they've already taken note, LOL !
I have a feeling this guy will be discussed for a very long time amongst Christian missionaries, likely contrasted to Operation Auca, aimed at a similar hostile indigenous group.
May or may not be true. It could be related to the Ongan or Great Andamanese languages (IIRC the individuals taken to North Sentinel Island were Onge, and their language is not intelligible with other Ongan languages or Great Andamanese languages). That's probably the most likely case, rather than Sentinelese being a language isolate (or related to some other language, like those of the Nicobar Islands).
It might not even be that far off, since the North Sentinelese have some cultural similarities to Ongan speaking groups. Their island is close to Rutland Island, where the Jangil people (Ongan speaking) lived. That doesn't imply their language is Ongan, since they might have adopted some of their cultural practices while keeping their language (which might be Great Andamanese, Ongan, or even a sister phylum to either), but it's probably the best evidence we have.
Probably one of the most annoying parts about John Chau's experience in getting killed by the Sentinelese is that he recorded a lot of notes, but few are useful for anthropology or linguistics. But he did record some interesting information in his diary. He could have done an interesting (albeit suicidal) mission to the Sentinelese if he had done more research on ethnology, linguistics, anthropology, and other Christian missions.
https://calmsnotes.wordpress.com/20...ry-john-chau-in-his-final-three-days-of-life/
It's more likely that they have forgotten how to make it (we saw a similar thing with the Tasmanians). Which would indicate a relative early colonisation of the island.
I wonder if that's more of a problem with bad sources rather than their genuine inability to make fire (I don't know if it's to be trusted the Tasmanians couldn't use fire either). How else could they cook meat or fish without it (and purify it from parasites), or plants for that matter, and access the calories and nutrients from cooked food? Being able to make fire has been a cultural universal since Homo erectus. They have the bow and arrow, which is a recent (10-20K years ago) development.
The claim is not that they don't use fire, but that they don't know to make it and instead upkeep a already burning fire and if it goes out, they go without fire until the next lighting strike, also if humans regularly eat raw and rotten meat from childhood, they begins to deal with it better.
He should have brought an Oboe
Reading some of Chaus notes it seemed he had more of a death wish than any intent to convert the Sentinelese.
Or maybe their ancestors lost that knowledge at some point? After all, their ancestors probably knew how to make rafts in order to reach the island?
I'd like to read a scholarly source on human groups who have supposedly lost the use of fire.
IMO it seems like Dunning-Krueger effect on his part. Chau did superficial research--I'm sure he knew of Operation Auca, the SIL, and other missionary efforts. But I think he felt like he imagined himself as one of the great missionaries in history, and thought that if he died, he'd be remembered like Nate Saint, Jim Elliot, etc. which is pretty arrogant on his part. I imagine that there's a lot of Christians talking about him and Operation Auca and related media (like End of the Spear, a cheesy Christian movie about Operation Auca) is getting a lot of attention. But again, he's an example on how not to evangelise some random tribe.
On the other hand in 1867 the merchant ship Nineveh reported that the Sentinelese were armed with iron tipped arrows so they can't have been that isolated. Clearly they were getting metal from somewhere.