Optimal Serbia border survey

Some ethnic maps:
This one from interwar period:
WLHli72.jpg

And here from 1981
Etni%C4%8Dka-karta-Jugoslavije.jpg
 
Very interesting maps! Buuut...I would caution against taking the 1940 map too literally. It's mostly accurate, but it has 2-3 mistakes, all in favour of Germany's claims (and the claims of some of its "friends"). The most glaring of which is the sudden and very sinister outbreak of "Windische".
 
Just like the Bavarians and other Catholic Germans can be Germans and live in the same State with the Protestant Germans, the Croats can be Serbs and live in the same state with the Orthodox Serbs.
It got a lot easier when Prussia was given to Poland and Brandenburg spent two or three generations under the Russians.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
View attachment 342487

I don't think Royal Yugoslavia was doomed, but I do suspect it was a naive idea and not really worth the hassle. So we'll say 1918 goes by without any pan-Slavic projects. Borders drawn to loosely fit the ethnic map and the concept of self-determination (with one or two strategic modifications in Serbia's favor - and one or two Serb-inhabited areas sacrificed for the sake of regional stability).
Good map, but I think that your connection between the Serbian parts of Bosnia and the rest of Serbia is too narrow; indeed, it looks like a salient which is ripe for a Croatian attack and encirclement. :(
 

CaliGuy

Banned
@Tomislav Addai: Very interesting maps! :)

Also, I have two questions:

1. How much would Slovenia's lack of coastline have hurt it had it become independent without its post-World War II territorial gains (at Italy's expense--for instance, this could have happened had Italy remained neutral in World War II)?

2. Why didn't the SR borders in Yugoslavia follow ethnic lines?
 
@Tomislav Addai: Very interesting maps! :)

Also, I have two questions:

1. How much would Slovenia's lack of coastline have hurt it had it become independent without its post-World War II territorial gains (at Italy's expense--for instance, this could have happened had Italy remained neutral in World War II)?

2. Why didn't the SR borders in Yugoslavia follow ethnic lines?

The results of a landlocked Slovenia would be quite dependent on its relationship with its neighbours. The relations with Italy would be quite complicated, while if relations with the rest of Yugoslavia remain reasonable its implications could be eradicated.
If Slovenia remains outside of Yugoslavia I can imagine it remaining in Austria.
I cannot really imagine rump Slovenia existing on its own.
Why? Because Croatia would be disconnected Dalmatian would separated by Serbian part from rest of Croatia, while the western Slavonia panhandle would effectively separate Slavonia from Zagreb.
The most reasonable ethnic border was that drawn by Macek and Cvetkovic, which provides for ethnic and reasonable borders.
Titos policies were based on calming down nationalism, as Tito fought Ustashas and Chetniks in WW2.
Drawing a border across Bosnia is I think too big a challenge. (Yes , Herzegovina can be divided quite nicely, but not Bosnia)
 
Halagaz is the only one to set up a sensible map so far. The rest are basically this:

[IMAGE]

And for anyone tempted to place Vukovar as a "priority" of any colour, do try to remember that this is the end result of the last time the Serbs set it up as a priority.
I took this as post World War I, meaning that I saw no reason for Serbia to part with/put up for negotiation anything it ruled in 1914.
 

ReenX

Banned
Just like the Bavarians and other Catholic Germans can be Germans and live in the same State with the Protestant Germans, the Croats can be Serbs and live in the same state with the Orthodox Serbs.


The Prussians pushed forward a German identity. They didn't try to make everyone into Prussians. If Serbs organized Yugoslavism better it could have worked. But assimilation of others is something that's been tried in Balkans for centuries and all it ever caused was poverty and conflict
 
Just like the Bavarians and other Catholic Germans can be Germans and live in the same State with the Protestant Germans, the Croats can be Serbs and live in the same state with the Orthodox Serbs.
Baiern ist Baiern, nicht Preußen. Baiern ist Deutsche, ja, nicht Preußisch.

That being said, Croatia is Croatian, not Serbian. Croatia is Yugoslav, yes, not Serbian.
 
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