Optimal ITALY post-World War I borders survey

CaliGuy

Banned
What do you think that Italy's optimal post-World War I borders should have been?

As for me, here is my map:

Italy.png


Gray = Italy's 1914 borders; Purple = First Priority; Blue = Second Priority; Green = Third Priority; Yellow = Keep if Offered.

Basically, I put Trentino, South Tyrol, Trieste, and the Julian March as my first priority here. In addition to all of the Italians living there, this border is ideal for Italy for security reasons. Basically, Italy needs to have borders at the crest of the Alps all around in order to protect Italy from a hypothetical future German invasion if/after Germany and Austria become unified. As for the German, Slovenian, and Croatian minorities living in these territories, I certainly support giving them full minority rights.

My priority #2 is the city of Fiume (Rijeka) due to its large Italian population. It is less important than the territories above since Yugoslavia also wants it and thus I am less determined to get it. Meanwhile, my priority #3 is the city of Zara (Zadar) due to its large Italian population; however, it is less important to me due to the fact that it is separated from Italy by a bunch of Croatian-majority territories.

As for Albania, the Dodecanese Islands, and western Anatolia, I would keep these territories if offered but would not actively pursue them due to their lack of Italians.

Anyway, what are your thoughts on this?

Also, for the record, I got the map that I used from here:

http://nisis.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/2/9/10295486/europe_1914_outline_map.gif
 

Deleted member 1487

Most of South Tyrol ought to be in Austria.
220px-Tirol-Suedtirol-Trentino.png

Trentino was mostly Italian, South Tyrol/Alto Adige was mostly German. The province then should have been split in half, which connects Tyrol into one unit, but doesn't give Italy the Brenner Pass and Geographical borders that they wanted.
 
220px-Tirol-Suedtirol-Trentino.png

Trentino was mostly Italian, South Tyrol/Alto Adige was mostly German. The province then should have been split in half, which connects Tyrol into one unit, but doesn't give Italy the Brenner Pass and Geographical borders that they wanted.
They ought to get Trentino then, and Austria keeps the rest.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
In a world where Wilson was actually listened to on self determination it would be. Wars don't work like that.
Very true.

Also, though, please keep in mind that putting 300,000 Germans under Italian rule was a small price to pay for providing additional security to Italy (especially when it wasn't known that Italy would end up severely mistreating these Germans for two decades):

https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/doc31.htm

"In the region of Trent the Italians claim a strategic rather than ethnic frontier. It should be noted in this connection that [Italy] and Germany will become neighbors if German Austria joins the German Empire. And if Italy obtains the best geographical frontier she will assume sovereignty over a large number of Germans. This is a violation of principle. But it may be argued that by drawing a sharp line along the crest of the Alps, Italy's security will be enormously enhanced and the necessity of heavy armaments reduced. It might, therefore, be provided that Italy should have her claim in the Trentino, but that the northern part, inhabited by Germans, should be completely autonomous and that the population should not be liable to military service in the Italian Army. Italy could thus occupy the uninhabited Alpine peaks for military purposes, but would not govern the cultural life of the alien population to the south of her frontier."
 
Personally OTL post-WWI border are the best as a really good mix of easy defense, historcal claim, italian population and slavic population to being assimilated or 'encouraged' to leave
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Personally OTL post-WWI border are the best as a really good mix of easy defense, historcal claim, italian population and slavic population to being assimilated or 'encouraged' to leave
Agreed that Italy's post-World War I borders were ideal; however, it would have been better to give Italy's various minorities full rights and equality instead of trying to force them to assimilate or emigrate.
 
Agreed that Italy's post-World War I borders were ideal; however, it would have been better to give Italy's various minorities full rights and equality instead of trying to force them to assimilate or emigrate.

Sure, but unfortunely post war Italy was a nationalistic fascist dictatorships, so what border Italy get hardly will change the fascist behaviour (except probably in worse)...if Italy remained a democracy things will have been slighlty different as Rome had promised (and till Benny takeover, delivered) some minority rights but once Benny and co. took the helm, assimilate or go was the natural policy.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Sure, but unfortunely post war Italy was a nationalistic fascist dictatorships, so what border Italy get hardly will change the fascist behaviour (except probably in worse)...if Italy remained a democracy things will have been slighlty different as Rome had promised (and till Benny takeover, delivered) some minority rights but once Benny and co. took the helm, assimilate or go was the natural policy.
You can probably blame the Italian King for Benny's rise.
 
You can probably blame the Italian King for Benny's rise.

You can blame the Great War: with those casualties and that economic situation, a revolution of some sort was inevitable.

Of course we can speculate on what form it would have taken had Shortpants Vic signed the decree and given Facta the power to do away with the blackshirts back in '22.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
You can blame the Great War: with those casualties and that economic situation, a revolution of some sort was inevitable.

Agreed.

Of course we can speculate on what form it would have taken had Shortpants Vic signed the decree and given Facta the power to do away with the blackshirts back in '22.

What form do you think that the revolution would have taken in such a scenario?
 
What form do you think that the revolution would have taken in such a scenario?

Look at France, just a little less chaotic; by 22 the communist and socialist hardliner were not in the shape to do any succesfull revolution...unfortunely nobody believed that and so Benny was considered the lesser evil
 
What form do you think that the revolution would have taken in such a scenario?

I don't know that much about the biennio rosso to make an educated analysis. At least there was a chance for the reds to obtain power legally like in France or Spain and then start radical reforms that would have triggered a reaction from economic potentates.

Another factor was the rumour, unsure how substantiated, of a coup in waiting from the Duke of Aosta who would have allied himself with the blackshirts and pushed his cousin off the throne.
 
Top