Could you provide a source?
EDIT: No, Germans are another 3 million.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tschechoslowakei#Bev.C3.B6lkerung
That's Czechs and Slovaks.Tschechoslowakena 8,761 Mio. 64,35 %
That's Czechs and Slovaks.
Still a lower share of the total than Algerians in France and that went well enough until a superpower started to destabilize French rule there while another superpower made sure the French fought back with both arms tied behind their backs - the same things wont be happening in Germany though.Fuck, you are rigth. But I still stand by my argument 6 million is quite a different beast than 145.000
Fair point but they abstained as a method of protest and the Treaty of Bucharest was not wholesale annexation to Germany, was it? .
The territories transferred at Brest-Litovsk and Bucharest were for the most part not inhabited by Germans. The Alpine and Sudeten regions of Austria were. So the SPD would have no reason to object, esp as quite a few German-Austrians were likely to become SPD voters.
If the German Empire is willing to hold Trento, they will be more than willing to hold Briey-Longwy. So what if the local population complains?
They abstained to Brest-Litovsk (can be viewed as opposition filtered by the attitudes of a nation at War) and Bucharest didn't transfer territory to Germany. It doesn't matter they're populated by 'Germans' (not German citizens but people of other nations) it brings Germany closer to a war and emboldens the military - both things a SPD at peace will fight.
"optimal" depends on what you're trying to achieve. By one definition it could include giving back Alsace-Lorraine and reconstituting Poland including bits of Silesia and West Prussia to get as close to an ethnic border as possible and reduce tension with France both possibly in Germany's interest.
I'm joking (mostly), and am well aware it would never happen with a CP victory.
Optimal depends upon the ends sought, security, prosperity, peace, stature, each calls for a different math. First I think that sober minds in Germany would quickly question annexing yet more minorities into Germany, especially the Poles. they had an independent history and already bristled under Russian dominance, I think the same could be said for Lithuanians and was becoming true for the Czechs. More territory does Germany little good post-war. In fact I think one could argue that A-L was on the table to be partitioned ethnically "German" and French or relinquished in whole under the right circumstances. Only German Austria was worth the effort and I am not convinced that it would truly fit well unless A-H implodes, something I think is not a foregone conclusion. But then once you spill this much blood and lose that much treasure any rational or magnanimous outcomes become hard to see.
For me a CP "victory" is likely a stalemated war with Russia collapsing and an armistice to the West, it likely results from an East offensive strategy and no invasion of Belgium, potentially a neutral British Empire, here Germany might not have to dig as deep simply to not be vanquished and is in no position to dictate terms (neither is France). That might be the only perfect alignment to get a lasting peace in Europe.
Germany long term would have benefitted from both supporting independence for all these nationalities and seeking to build a genuine free trade zone, potentially also a mutual defense alliance. I assume Luxembourg is merging into the Empire as another co-equal state. Assuming Germany is holding A-L then annexing the iron ore regions is likely if they are under German control but anything more is both destabilizing and potentially unworkable. I think the regions in now Estonia and Latvia could be enticed to join the Empire but Lithuania like Poland is better set free to face the Russian (or Soviet) threat. Same with the Ukraine and Finland. Both of these later two might accept a German (or Austrian) "King" while fitting into a German dominated economic zone under German protection. Poland likely goes far more independent for some time before finding that Germany is a rather good neighbor. But to have such vision during or immediately post-war is improbable. There would be as much mishandling and crisscrossed purposes until things get sorted and that invites the hard feeling that might doom it. Such a foresighted policy would likely preclude another war. But if we can find such a thing then I assume that even if Germany gets a few new bits and bobs they may get set free as the future unfolds. If Germany builds a successful economic union then political independence becomes easier to grant the minority peoples in a Courland or Lorraine or Danish Schleswig, they are still locked in a mutual defense pact if there is a USSR to threaten stability, or at worst solidly neutrals, even France would in time find it impossible not to improve relations with Germany. But then we get the colonial holdings and that gets us back to the bitter game that might spoil things.
I mostly agree with this, but the SPD might very well support the idea of having more potential SPD voters be put inside of Germany; after all, every party wants to have more votes.Ah, fair one. But we're supposed to be discussing Caliguy's map, aren't we? Any map having extensive annexations into Germany are a no-go, IMHO. Vassals and puppets, by all means. Spheres of influence and economic dominance, most definitely. Maybe even destruction of fortifications in a "demilitarised zone" would be a good one. I just can't see a SPD dominated Reichstag approving wholesale balkanisation of Central Europe and then absorbing parts of these antagonised nations into Germany. Gemany may exit a victorious alt-WWI as the most powerful nation on the continent, but in many of these maps they would be friendless. History teaches us no matter how iron the determination to keep enemies under the heel at the end of a War, the urge will fade given time. Tie that to revanchsim, which unless France ceases to exist post war is guaranteed, then you've brewed the perfect formula for round two.
If possible, you might as well strip Russia's Caucasian territories from it as well. Also, in regards to occupying southern Belgium, why not simply turn all of Belgium into a German protectorate?Here is how Europe should look after WWI:
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And this is how Austria-Hungary should be split up:
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Just so that nobody is confused: German-Austria gets integrated as a Kingdom and a Duchy into the German Empire while Hungary becomes an independent kingdom, as does Croatia. Both Hungary and Croatia get parts of Serbia. So do Bulgaria and Albania. Lithuania becomes a Duchy in alliance with Germany. Latvia and Estonia get merged into the Baltic confederation or the United Baltic Duchy or whatever which is in alliance with Germany. Poland becomes an independent Kingdom in a customs union with Germany. Ukraine and Belarus become independent states in which Germany has exclusive extraction rigths for certain ressources.
In the west Germany annexes Luxemburg and gets to occupy a part of the French border for 10 years. Germany limits the amount of coal and steel which may be extracted from cerain mines in northern France. Flanders gets annexed by the Netherlands. The Walloons become an independent duchy under the "protection" of Germany.
If possible, you might as well strip Russia's Caucasian territories from it as well. Also, in regards to occupying southern Belgium, why not simply turn all of Belgium into a German protectorate?
Otherwise, though, your maps are pretty good.Indeed, what exactly were your source maps for these two maps?
Not sure I follow. If A/H has collapsed in the aftermath of a CP victory,
there is no likelihood of further war in the near term.
And if A/H has collapsed (the only situation in which this issue would ever arise) these German-populated areas have to go somewhere. If not into Germany, then where? There isn't really anywhere else.
Actually if anyone objects it is more likely to be the Prussian Junkers, who might be concerned that the absorption of all these South German Catholics could dilute their ascendancy in the Reich. The SPD and Centre parties, for their part, might welcome it for precisely the same reason.
I mostly agree with this, but the SPD might very well support the idea of having more potential SPD voters be put inside of Germany; after all, every party wants to have more votes.
They might vote for their own parties but given the Polonophobia of the German right, the Polish parties could conspire with the SPD to form a governing coalition.Where are you getting this idea that annexed Poles will be loyal SPD voters?
That's Czechs and Slovaks.Tschechoslowakena 8,761 Mio. 64,35 %
They might vote for their own parties but given the Polonophobia of the German right, the Polish parties could conspire with the SPD to form a governing coalition.
Again, why would they collapse if they’ve won?
Based on what theory? So the Empire collapses in complete peace and calm does it? No inter-regional strife, no border conflicts between the successor states that get on so badly they dissolve a victorious Empire? Can’t say I see it myself, but fair enough.
... Austria? Are you seriously sticking to your point so badly that you’re just going to deny the existence of an independent, sovereign, Austria? That’s impressive.
So if the SPD (who were anti-annexationist, would have concerns about wage competition from second class non-German citizens and were generally against military expansion and aggrandisement) then the social class who control the military and the diplomatic corps would be opposed to it, but it would still happen? Ok. OTL, given the political map of Imperial Germany Caliguy provided on another thread, the SPD doesn’t seem to have been that well represented in Polish areas of the Reich. Not sure the “Poles and Czechs would be a SPD voter base” theory hangs together, to be fair.
What would you do within the realm of feasibility after a CP victory, though?
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So the answer comes back to what is meant by optimal and what is the degree of victory