Operation Unthinkable carried out

If the Western Allies had pushed further east, or the Soviets further west there might have been some conflict sparking friendly fire incidents without General X/Y/Z going off the reservation.

But if we stick to history 100% up until the POD, 'Unthinkable' is just that, you would need the powerball lottery jackpot of bad luck and poor decision making on both sides in order for Unthinkable to become Plausible.
 
Nukes would be problematic though, there are no facilities for the construction of the bombs in Europe yet, so it'd be a few weeks or months before they're capable of being launched from there, most likely England. After that the problem is going to be the range of the bombers, I don't think they'd be able to strike into Russia so occupied Europe would take a pounding from any strategic bombing. Tactical bombing would be somewhat useful but difficult because of Soviet air power making tactical bombing less effective. With the bomb construction facility in the Pacific though, I would bet bottom dollar that Vladivostok would disappear within a few days.

You don't need particularly difficult to construct facilities to assemble an early fission weapon. As I recall, the facilities on Tinian were constructed by SeaBees in less than 6 weeks, and most of that was waiting for the concrete to harden. Since England is already a gigantic air base, I'm fairly certain facilties were extant for the assembly (needs a big shed) and loading (needs a bomb pit) of large bombs. I submit that the Tallboy and Grand Slam facilites would suit the need quite nicely, as the tallboy is roughly the same mass and the grand slam is more than the mass of the early fission weapons.

As far as range is concerned, I do not beleive that B-29s had the range to hit the Soviet Union and return to base from the Marianas. The B-29s that were interned in the SU were mostly (as I understand it) from the chinese bases. Running B-29s out of Alaska would take a few months to prepare an airstrip (lengthening Dutch Harbor strikes me as the most likely, although Attu or Kiska air bases are possibilities). Either way, all of Europe, with the exception of the Baku oil region is within range from England, and ALL of the SU is within range from a combination of England, Egypt, India, China and Alaska. If you discount Egypt and China, you are still able to reach all of the SU except for a relatively small area of the coast on the Arctic Ocean, and I'm not entirely certain about that.

At a production rate of 3 bombs a month starting in November of 45 (I think, not sure) it would be possible to wreak untold havoc on the Soviet war machine, even assuming the loss of all of europe except England. The SU was even less navally inclined than Germany, and the Allies would have essentially free reign over the ocean blue.

Belushi TD
 
It is not hard to make the Soviets look like the aggressors, considering widespread control of media in the post-war world.

The Soviets were running out of manpower. I believe they resorted to widespread child labor to maintain their economy.


Resorting? More like standard practice. Though the 12-17 year olds involveld were probably happy because their rations were higher than those of non-working children.

Well, then they turn 18, or 17, or even 16 in the worst stretches, and it was off to the military with the boys.
 
UK-based B-29s would have been able to range pretty deeply into the USSR, especially if you could recover in the Middle East, granted that's not a given in the Unthinkable situation. Or if you weren't concerned about getting the crews back. The RAF was lent a relatively sizeable number of B-29s for just such missions in the early 1950s, as the Lincoln didn't have the range needed to cover desired targets, and the V-Bomber force was few years off.

Of course, the whole thing would have been the mess of all messes. Although I wonder if both sides were, at heart, so exhausted from finishing the Reich off that any new conflict would have just ground to a stalemate fairely quickly. Probably the best that could have been hoped for.
 
Here is the timetable for Operation Unthinkable:
June 1, 1945: Winston Churchill announces war against the Soviet Union.
June 2, 1945: Winston Churchill escapes assassination by fleeing to Greenland dressed as a woman.
 
Here is the timetable for Operation Unthinkable:
June 1, 1945: Winston Churchill announces war against the Soviet Union.
June 2, 1945: Winston Churchill escapes assassination by fleeing to Greenland dressed as a woman.

More likely:

June 1, 1945: Winston Churchill announces war against the Soviet Union.

June 2, 1945: Winston Churchill is quietly committed to mental institution.
 
Here is the timetable for Operation Unthinkable:
June 1, 1945: Winston Churchill announces war against the Soviet Union.
June 2, 1945: Winston Churchill escapes assassination by fleeing to Greenland dressed as a woman.
He DOES look like a Russian Babushka, doesn't he?
 
UK-based B-29s would have been able to range pretty deeply into the USSR, especially if you could recover in the Middle East, granted that's not a given in the Unthinkable situation. Or if you weren't concerned about getting the crews back. The RAF was lent a relatively sizeable number of B-29s for just such missions in the early 1950s, as the Lincoln didn't have the range needed to cover desired targets, and the V-Bomber force was few years off.

Of course, the whole thing would have been the mess of all messes. Although I wonder if both sides were, at heart, so exhausted from finishing the Reich off that any new conflict would have just ground to a stalemate fairely quickly. Probably the best that could have been hoped for.

A stalemate in the West, in Germany is what the allies would hope for. A stalemate in 1945, economic strangulation and buildup of forces in '46 and breakouts in '46 or '47 through Persia and in the Far East while the Soviets have to counter. The allied air power can make the logistical situation for the Soviets a mess. While there is a stalemate in '45, the allies can pick and choose where they want to build up to break out. Perhaps in Iran to Soviet Central Asia and the Far East. The breakout over time will weaken the Soviets as the Allies become stronger. Eventually, more and more countries such as Turkey will join the allies.

From a military standpoint, the allies can be victorious with a grind it out campaign whereas the Germans needed the quick victory.

Eventually, the industrial might of the USA which would be even more since, the USA would not have to worry about building/maintaining a navy would overcome the USSR in 1948 or 1949. The USSR would eventually feel the pinch of its factories being bombed, its infastructure ruined to where even if it could produce the goods, they cannot get them to where they need to go. It has to match the allies in the West and then wap, there are breakouts in Iran and Korea.

As stated in previous posts, it all depends upon the will of the American and British public.
 

Prefrence

Banned
Things will go well for the soviets (perhaps they make it to the Rhine or further), that is until a certian weapon is ready for deployment...
 
WI Churchill and all the others who saw the Soviet Union as a severe threat managed to persuade all sceptics and opposers of Operation unthinkalbe and the full force of the Anglo/American armies attack the Soviets on 22nd June 1945?

The Allies strike first and are on the offensive. The goal is not to defeat or conquer Russia but "just" to push the Red Army and the USSR back to its 1938 borders.

If the POD is in 1941 and you exclude the Soviet Union from the Lend Lease, they probally wouldn't be able to have the huge offensives in 1943,44,45....Allies reach Berlin first and possibly liberate Poland...

Under these conditions, Operation Unthinkable is much more ...Thinkable
 
We recently had a lenghty thread about a conflict between the Soviets and the western allies in 1945, so there isn't much more left unsaid on the topic.
The only thing I could add about Unthinkable is that I find operation Unthinkable much more plausible than an alternate Soviet attack on the west, because whereas the soviets had a stronger army and could win some impressive victories in the short term, it's the allies who hold the long term advantage and can actually win such a war if they are willing to fight it.
 
Friendly fire incidents would have simply been resolved with diplomacy after a couple of weeks. Or the NKVD would have arrested whoever was screwy enough to try and continue fighting. Whichever comes first.
 
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