Operation Torch: Vichy Africa or Vichy France?

flaja

Banned
In his autobiography the Nazi Albert Speer explained that he was with Hitler when Hitler got the news that an Allied invasion fleet (for Operation Torch) was entering the Mediterranean Sea. According to Speer Hitler got upset thinking that the invasion was aimed at Vichy France, which was empty of German troops as per the Franco-German armistice of 1940.

Could the Allies have successfully invaded Vichy France in November 1942? Could the Germans have moved troops from the Eastern Front (even though they were about to be defeated at Stalingrad) to France before the Allies had driven the Germans out of France?

Or would Germany have tried to transfer the Afrika Korps across the Med to re-enforce their garrison in northern and eastern France? Would such a transfer have been halted by the U.S. and Royal Navies?
 
The Afrika corps was holding down a lot of Imperial troops in North Africa. They would have stayed there. Trains are faster than ships for moving tanks and troops. Might have persuaded the Germans to bug out of Stalingrad.
 

Archibald

Banned
Northern Africa was not the same thing as continental France.

Attacking Vichy France = Overlord or Anvil Dragoon (Ie 1944 landings) in 1942.
Now there had been an atempt to make a 1942 "landing" (at least , a rehearsal) in Dieppe in august 1942. It was a costly disaster for the Canadians.

In 1942 the allies simply don't have the logistics, troops and experience to mount a continental France landing.
Torch and the landing in Sicilia really helped defining the 1944 landings.
 

Markus

Banned
In his autobiography the Nazi Albert Speer explained that he was with Hitler when Hitler got the news that an Allied invasion fleet (for Operation Torch) was entering the Mediterranean Sea. According to Speer Hitler got upset thinking that the invasion was aimed at Vichy France, which was empty of German troops as per the Franco-German armistice of 1940.

Are you sure? The Germans did not learn about Torch until after the landings had begun.
 

flaja

Banned
Northern Africa was not the same thing as continental France.

Attacking VichyFrance = Overlord or Anvil Dragoon (Ie 1944 landings) in 1942.
Now there had been an atempt to make a 1942 "landing" (at least , a rehearsal) in Dieppe in august 1942. It was a costly disaster for the Canadians.


Dieppe was a frontal assault on frontline German troops that were expecting an invasion. An invasion of southern France in 1942 would have been an assault on French troops. Why would the French troops in VichyFrance have been any different than the French troops we fought in North Africa?

In 1942 the allies simply don't have the logistics, troops and experience to mount a continental
France landing.


We were able to supply a beachhead in North Africa in 1942, so why could we not have supplied a beachhead in southern France in 1942?
 
Top