Operation Tannenbaum Outcome?

Switzerland allowed an outlet to the international financial system for the Germans ... The Swiss, for most of the war, were more than happy to sell the Germans anything they wanted that the Swiss could provide, and not ask where the foreign currency or gold came from ...

you have illustrated their best defense!

my scenario is "Great Swiss Bank Robbery" to quickly capture the tangible assets. they had gold reserves greater than amounts captured in all the occupied countries combined (excepting France, but they didn't get those IOTL)

(Stalin and Soviets made a similar maneuver albeit they conned the Spanish out of their gold reserves for "prepaid" military hardware)

Seems the national redoubt plan did not really exist in the summer of 1940. It was developed gradually through 1940-41.

my scenario for invasion would be before/instead of(?) Poland, always stated their economy would have collapsed without gold reserves from captured countries? they could have had trifecta of Czechoslovakia, Austria, Switzerland in quick order.

The Swiss had a well developed hydroelectric industry. Did the Germans draw power from that & if so how dependant were they on it?

there was one case where the Swiss refused or delayed the expansion of hydro plant the Germans wanted? (have to find that book again) it powered an aluminium plant IIRC, so tied to aircraft production. overall my understanding the Swiss were more dependent on German coal than Germans needed Swiss electricity? it seems however another underdeveloped resource the German autarky could have exploited?
 
May be urban legend, but one of the German generals reputedly spoke to his Swiss counterpart pre-war.
"You can muster a quarter-million men under arms. How would you fare if I arrive on your border with an army of half a million ?"
"Oh, we'd all shoot twice, then go home..."
This was pre-WW1, or at least the version I've heard - said to no less a person than Wilhelm II.
Swiss forces were very well trained in weapon use - rifle doctrine was first round hits at 300-600 yds. They practiced a lot.
 
Ok the background here isn't important. Lets say for whatever the reason Nazi Germany decides to invade Switzerland in 1941. There is no help forecoming from either Vichy France or Mussolini. Further the Soviet Union isn't a factor here. This is all on the Germans and the Wehrmacht. How long would it take the Wehrmacht to overcome Swiss resistance and force their surrender.

My personal hunches is the Luftwaffe would gain control of air within a week before gaining total air supremacy within three weeks. On the ground it would be harder as the Alps isn't great Panzer territory. They would have to use the Luftwaffe was flying artillery, but could they break the National Redoubt the Swiss have?
The main problem with taking swizerland is the alps.

Once the Germans got past the alps siwzerland was done for.

So swizerland would hold onto those mountains until every man was dead
 
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Assuming the Germans occupy enough of Switzerland to take the gold reserves, and open every safe deposit box in the Swiss banks and steal anything of value (gold, jewels, bearer bonds, etc). They now can't spend it outside their own territory. If Germany wants to buy anything from a country they can't get to by land, they are out of the international financial system. Even for contiguous countries, if they want to buy raw materials from say Turkey, Spain, Romania they now have to physically transport the gold to them to pay their bills - not as straightforward as you'd think.

Another issue is that they have no shown every neutral anywhere in the world that no matter how neutral they are, or how convenient they are for the Nazis, they have to wake up every day and worry about being invaded...not good.
 
Um, it may seem a silly question, lionhead, but have you seen those passes' pinch-points ?

Think 'Canadian Rockies'--- A steep valley, a road, a rail-line and LOTS of avalanche warning signs.

Yes, yes, the Swiss won't have 'Marshal Winter' to help during 'Panzer Season', but they do have lots and lots of unstable geology...

Also, IIRC, the Swiss AAA was infamous for shooting amply & accurately at all-comers, be they HEs cutting corners or damaged RAF/USAF bombers trying to get home...

Well if you ask if i have ever been in Switzerland then the answer is yes. I didn't focus on the passes and wether they are good pinch points, but like i said from what i know it very hard to coordinate such ambushes and i doubt the germans aren't at least somewhat prepared to take the best routes through.

If you disagree, then show me where they were prepared and how tight these blockades could be. Then we can discuss how efficient and decisive they would be.

A lot of the german army are Austrians, they come from the same kind of region. They know.
 
Yes the Austrians know how hard mountain warfare is. Their fathers tried for three years to beat the Italians over terrain slightly less mountainous than Switzerland.
 
Well the thing is the Italians want their own piece of Swiss, mainly in the form of Ticino, which is the only canton that is an Italian majority. But as I said the Italians aren't sending troops into Switzerland as an invading army. But Vichy isn't in a position to trade with the Swiss because of the way the occupied zone is designed. So Italy is the only way for the Swiss to trade with the free world. Could Italy strong arm the Swiss into handing over Ticino for trade?
 

Hunter W.

Banned
Italian surrender monkeys, the problem with the Italians is that they showed pretty poorly in their attempt to invade South-Eastern France so I doubt they will be any use. Except if they just flood the country with inexperienced untested troops.
 
But Vichy isn't in a position to trade with the Swiss because of the way the occupied zone is designed. So Italy is the only way for the Swiss to trade with the free world. Could Italy strong arm the Swiss into handing over Ticino for trade?
Actually, Vichy does have one road and rail line running into Switzerland, which IIRC the Swiss did make significant use of.
 
Assuming the Germans occupy enough of Switzerland to take the gold reserves, and open every safe deposit box in the Swiss banks and steal anything of value (gold, jewels, bearer bonds, etc). They now can't spend it outside their own territory. If Germany wants to buy anything from a country they can't get to by land, they are out of the international financial system. Even for contiguous countries, if they want to buy raw materials from say Turkey, Spain, Romania they now have to physically transport the gold to them to pay their bills - not as straightforward as you'd think.

part of the fun for Germany would be damage they could inflict to international financial system they had two decades of financial stress and bartering for needed materials.

Switzerland became their banker under the exact scenario outlined, there are several avenues open to them. a neutral Italy the best but Sweden, Spain, Portugal, and/or Vichy France could have served.

depending on course of war they could simply trade with USSR, another gleeful spectator to (any) financial distress of capitalist democracies.
 
The financial system won't collapse if Switzerland is out of it in WWII. This it not 2017 where you have centralized nodes of computerized trades and wire transfers. The loss of non-Swiss assets in a Nazi occupied Switzerland will hurt some individuals and companies, but not much. In fact in 1940 London was the major clearing house, with New York in second place. International transfers, absent physical transfer of gold, are basically IOU's which are traded back and forth. If Germany buys widgets or a raw material in country A, and pays by wire transfer the fact that there is a lot of gold in the Reichsbank vaults only counts if you trust Germany to make good the debts or if you can use that IOU to buy something from country B. First will the UK or anywhere in the sterling zone handle such transfers - no. Will the USA or anyone in the dollar zone handle those transfers - no. Exactly how far can anyone trust the Nazis to honor debts in a timely fashion, even if these transfers are made. At worst the Nazi occupation of Switzerland is an inconvenience for the rest of the world, for the Nazis a disaster financially.
 
The financial system won't collapse if Switzerland is out of it in WWII. This it not 2017 where you have centralized nodes of computerized trades and wire transfers. The loss of non-Swiss assets in a Nazi occupied Switzerland will hurt some individuals and companies, but not much. In fact in 1940 London was the major clearing house, with New York in second place. ... Exactly how far can anyone trust the Nazis ... At worst the Nazi occupation of Switzerland is an inconvenience for the rest of the world, for the Nazis a disaster financially.

financial distress depends on what exactly the Nazis find in Swiss hands, which could match or dwarf the already huge known reserves (greater than amounts captured from all the other countries combined.) and what type of information they find to exploit.

no one trusted the Nazi regime historically, no one would trust them less if they ransacked Switzerland ... they were a financial disaster historically, bailed out by stolen and captured loot, in this enterprise the Swiss were convenient not indispensable.

(they were able to barter, under the Versailles regime, and rebuild their military? operating in the shadows is not a foreign concept to them)
 
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