Operation Sea Lion (1974 Sandhurst Wargame)

Deleted member 94680

SealTheRealDeal said:
What if the UK makes its own Siebel Ferries? A pair of Thames barges strapped together, powered, and armed with four of the 3.7" AA cannon?
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Ah, they will be hideously inefficient, pathetic attempts at a warship and the aircraft engines used to power them will mean the RAF ceases to exist as a meaningful military force, or something.

You must remember; if it isn’t German, it’s rubbish and the laws of supply absolutely apply.
 

steamboy

Stenz said:
Exactly, use them instead. Battleships are a waste of resources, obviously. Just think how many barges can be built for the metal used, I mean wasted, on Yamato?
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That screaming you can now hear is angry young 'black shoe' naval officers of the IJN about to batter your door down and insert sharp objects into squishy meat. I think anyone trying to have the Yamato class cancelled would have a very nasty 'accident'.
 

Mike D

Once the world sees the madness of this barge race surely there'll be calls for a new round of arms control treaties before all of the major naval nations on Earth bankrupt themselves trying to build ever bigger, ever more unseaworthy, ever more unbattleworthy barges?
 

mudhead

Mike D said:
Once the world sees the madness of this barge race surely there'll be calls for a new round of arms control treaties before all of the major naval nations on Earth bankrupt themselves trying to build ever bigger, ever more unseaworthy, ever more unbattleworthy barges?
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No government will permit a "Barge Gap" to imperil national security. But barges are really only effective when confronted by the cowardly, incompetent RN.
 

Mike D

mudhead said:
No government will permit a "Barge Gap" to imperil national security. But barges are really only effective when confronted by the cowardly, incompetent RN.
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The world will look on in awe as the Royal Navy responds to other nations drawing level to their power in the same way as they always have - by building something bigger and more powerful. Once the Lion class is launched, at an awe inspiring 45,000t and armed with an apocalyptic 14x 2 Pounders and up to 25 Lewis Guns with top speed of 6kn and the ability to survive anything up to a Force 3 sea state, the entire world will see once again why Britannia rules the waves.
 

misterwibble

Mike D said:
The world will look on in awe as the Royal Navy responds to other nations drawing level to their power in the same way as they always have - by building something bigger and more powerful. Once the Lion class is launched, at an awe inspiring 45,000t and armed with an apocalyptic 14x 2 Pounders and up to 25 Lewis Guns with top speed of 6kn and the ability to survive anything up to a Force 3 sea state, the entire world will see once again why Britannia rules the waves.
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2015-07-28-1438125588-2688981-FrySarcasm-thumb.jpg
 

Deleted member 94680

mudhead said:
No government will permit a "Barge Gap" to imperil national security. But barges are really only effective when confronted by the cowardly, incompetent RN.
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..and therefore everyone will build them, as surely every nation on the earth hates the British.
 

Ian_W

Banned
Speaking seriously, if the Heer are preparing for a 1941 invasion, you will likely see some new rapid-construction small British vessels and the conversion of more private yachts and so on to Auxilaries.

You can do a lot with a yacht with a Lewis Gun and signal flares.
 

Jellico

Ian_W said:
Speaking seriously, if the Heer are preparing for a 1941 invasion, you will likely see some new rapid-construction small British vessels and the conversion of more private yachts and so on to Auxilaries.

You can do a lot with a yacht with a Lewis Gun and signal flares.
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Now you have me humming the theme to Gilligan's Island.
 

soothsayer

sloreck said:
It is entirely possible that panzer was mangled by the blast effect by a shell landing close by, and some shrapnel penetrated somewhere causing the fire and/or ammo explosion. The weakest point of any armored vehicle is the top, and shells from a ship doing shore bombardment will be effectively coming straight down. I also draw your attention to the fact that 16" shells go up 30K-40K ft during their flight path. The formula for potential energy is E=mGh (mass/acceleration/height), so the potential energy for a 1,000 kg shell falling from a max height of 10,000 meters is approximately 98 MILLION joules/72.2 million ft-lbs/21.2 kg of TNT. Ouch, this is without any explosive...
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Actually it’s a lot more, the shell has velocity before it falls (and air resistant on the way down).

At 25-35km, the impact velocity is about 500m/s (give or take). A 1200kg AP is 150Mj!!!

You can explain why they could just use concrete practice bombs with laser kits for tank plinking.

That said most modern tanks are rated for 155mm bursts at ~15m. Vs 8” HE plus, is academic.

BTW

The RN ships had little HE at the start of the war. Monitors had long (8crh) HE that BBs couldn’t fire (unless updated turrets). RN BBs carried old CPC base fuse, so not the best for ground support.

BBs did carry old shrapnel, which would be horrific against soft targets if you get the range and fuse right.
 

soothsayer

Ian_W said:
Speaking seriously, if the Heer are preparing for a 1941 invasion, you will likely see some new rapid-construction small British vessels and the conversion of more private yachts and so on to Auxilaries.

You can do a lot with a yacht with a Lewis Gun and signal flares.
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They did all that already.

By ‘41 the various motor launchers (yachts with MGs, MB with 3 pdrs) had been succeeded by the bigger Fairmile C. Most had 2pdr pom-poms to match the E-boats, and give the vessel a reason weapon that could hit and sink small vessels.

There was few fishing trawlers left (not taken up already), and at 10kts we’re not great for chasing down traffic. They had much important things to do countering mines, especially magnetically.

Ironically, Iceland made a killing suppling fish to UK, as there were few Brit trawlers left!!

There was little scope to man extra ships, as most with maritime experience were in service, and training on others struggling to kept up.

UK had no space or money for any extra production. Flowers took that up and Captains only happened due to lead lease.
 
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