Operation Sea Lion (1974 Sandhurst Wargame)

Cryhavoc101

Fred the Great said:
Ah, yeah, thank you. I certainly didn't mean it an appalling inappropriate manner. I was very much harking back, tongue in cheek, to that comment Glenn made himself about how he was explaining to his young nephew some point or other about Sea Lion and how he got it but apparently none of us had. That comment has remained in my mind.
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People have been fired from the BBC for less :')
 

eltf177

DaveBC said:
Difficult to be certain because of the quality of the photograph but I don't see any visible holes where the shell actually punched through the armour.

At least it must have been quick.
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I remember reading somewhere that at one time British DD's were shelling German tanks. It was discovered that the 4.7-inch gun did a pretty good job of smashing German armor...
 

sloreck

It is entirely possible that panzer was mangled by the blast effect by a shell landing close by, and some shrapnel penetrated somewhere causing the fire and/or ammo explosion. The weakest point of any armored vehicle is the top, and shells from a ship doing shore bombardment will be effectively coming straight down. I also draw your attention to the fact that 16" shells go up 30K-40K ft during their flight path. The formula for potential energy is E=mGh (mass/acceleration/height), so the potential energy for a 1,000 kg shell falling from a max height of 10,000 meters is approximately 98 MILLION joules/72.2 million ft-lbs/21.2 kg of TNT. Ouch, this is without any explosive...
 

Paul_Sussex

Just for added interest, the "port" at Ventnor in the 1930's
upload_2019-5-16_16-31-57.png

Note the cliffs either side (and I can confirm the climb up from the beach is quite a trek), the landing stage which will have been destroyed or cut off from the landward end, the rocks offshore. Good luck with landing any substantial tonnage here! :)
 

DaveBC

Fred the Great said:
Ah, yeah, thank you. I certainly didn't mean it an appalling inappropriate manner. I was very much harking back, tongue in cheek, to that comment Glenn made himself about how he was explaining to his young nephew some point or other about Sea Lion and how he got it but apparently none of us had. That comment has remained in my mind.
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Sorry, it was probably an unnecessary note of caution, but the first time I read your comment, I thought, "What the..." and then I remembered what you must be referring to.
 
Paradox-less

Paradox-less

Of course, as we all know, if the Germans had launched either Sea Lion or Wightlion, to use a quote..."A war hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered eighty thousand battle helmets with the horns on the inside."
 
Derek Pullem

Derek Pullem

Donor
eltf177 said:
I remember reading somewhere that at one time British DD's were shelling German tanks. It was discovered that the 4.7-inch gun did a pretty good job of smashing German armor...
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That was during the Dunkirk evacuations - I think it was destroyers tied up at Boulogne who engaged panzers over open sights whilst they were loading.
 

eltf177

I often wondered if they were firing HE or AP. But against tanks with only 15mm (0.6-inch) armor, 30mm (1.2-inches) as best that's really a moot point...
 

Captain Seafort

eltf177 said:
I often wondered if they were firing HE or AP. But against tanks with only 15mm (0.6-inch) armor, 30mm (1.2-inches) as best that's really a moot point...
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The description of tanks doing cartwheels suggests HE - I suspect an early war Panzer would react to 4.7" AP in much the same way a watermelon reacts to .303.
 

Coulsdon Eagle

Monthly Donor
Errolwi said:
Um, it was the NZers that were bus-mobile (as I mentioned earlier). The timing for this reference is mid-July. Not sure if equivalent lift was provided to the other divisions of 7 Corps.
http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-WH2Gree-c2.html#n35
There was still an acute shortage of arms, vehicles and equipment. Fifth Field Regiment had only one battery: a collection of 18-pounder guns and 4.5-inch howitzers. The anti-tank companies had been given the Bedford 30-cwt trucks, sheeted with ⅝ inch steel plate and equipped with Bren guns and anti-tank rifles. C Squadron Divisional Cavalry had six light tanks and six Bren carriers. The Army Service Corps details, men from the Petrol and Ammunition Companies, had motor lorries, but for the transportation of troops 8 and 9 Motor Coach Companies had been attached from the RoyalArmy Service Corps. With their enormous camouflaged buses they could lift the whole force in one move.
​
Some interesting descriptions of decisions around sending forces overseas from the UK in the following few pages.
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Ah yes - but under the cunning plan - sorry, shabby Nazi underhand action - Der Fuhrer's boys will have taken all the seats, leaving the Men from the Ends of the Earth standing room only. You can't expect a battalion to function at full military value if they've been hanging onto the straps with their noses jammed under the next bloke's armpit. We have just neutralised one of the Empire's last best hopes.
 

Coulsdon Eagle

Monthly Donor
Paul_Sussex said:
Just for added interest, the "port" at Ventnor in the 1930's
View attachment 459825
Note the cliffs either side (and I can confirm the climb up from the beach is quite a trek), the landing stage which will have been destroyed or cut off from the landward end, the rocks offshore. Good luck with landing any substantial tonnage here! :)
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Sorry, can't see the docks and cranes. Seem to be missing a harbour wall or two too. Must sack some blokes in Ordnance Survey.
 

Cryhavoc101

Jellico said:
Explains Russia.
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Would have gotten away with it too if it were not for those pesky Russians not surrendering when any self respecting untermenschen should have

Some sort of Communist Jewish conspiracy....

I hear that the Japanese had the same issue with the Chinese
 
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