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So you sink USS Washington but nothing has happen to the japanese? No Japanese ships sunk and it is showing that the Japanese Navy is invincible. This one I didn't like at all.
Nah, Kaga got smashed up as 'payback'. Plus, that submarine only scored half the battleship - it took a full-on air attack to finish it off.

Compared with OTL having a submarine sink Wasp and cripple Saratoga, I don't think I gave that submarine any superpowers or anything?

Its been a great read, thanks!
And well balanced following the POD. Not surprising ITTL that the Japanese have an advantage
Thanks mate :)

Perhaps this TL has been a little of a Japanese wank (more than OTL at least), but I admit it's interesting seeing a TL where Japan gets in general 'good luck' but not to ASB levels.
Ehh... maybe a little bit. I don't mind too much if it is though - if I've calculated it right there's definitely enough oil for what I've outlined to happen. If there's 100 TLs out there, there's going to be one with this balance of Japanese to US victories, so what's wrong with exploring it?

(IIRC there was a TL with that explicit concept several years back, but I don't think it it got far beyond a win at Midway.)
I'd be interested to read this if anyone remembers what it was!

Rolling all Sixes doesn’t help as much when the opponent is rolling 4 or 5 times as many dice. :)
Have to build those extra dice first. One of them is still sitting in Newport News needing the side labelled "6" to be glued on, the others need even more sides to be attached still. :p

- BNC
 
XX: Divided Attention (10/42)
XX: Divided Attention, October 1942

Any admiral seeking a decisive battle on October 20th would have been bitterly disappointed by the short and inconclusive battle that was fought, and had it not been for the arrival of some heavy rains near New Caledonia, several more strikes would surely have been ordered. While Fletcher was disappointed, and hoped that the rain would disperse quickly, Yamamoto was satisfied with his own progress: the first wave of troops had been landed, now storming across New Caledonia’s mountainous spine before they were met by serious opposition. Kaga would be useless until it could be repaired: a job that would take at least six months plus however long it would take to return to Japan; several cargo ships had also run aground on the huge coral reefs when the tides lowered, two were left irreparable and had to be abandoned. Yamamoto hoped that Fletcher would waste his bombs on the wrecks.
The bad weather would prove extremely useful to Yamamoto, who wanted to get the second wave of troops ashore as soon as possible. Ready to embark from Efate as soon as the ships arrived, they would need just over a day for the trip to Thio. Along with roughly 5000 veterans of the vicious fighting on Fiji, the second wave would carry the bulk of the supplies required for the next few weeks of fighting: the first wave had travelled light so that they could establish a position as close to Noumea as possible, but the second would be needed to fight the battle for the city. Unlike Fiji, here there would be fewer opportunities to acquire food from the locals.
Escorting the supplies had by now become a routine for the Japanese captains, who had spent months running ships to and from Fiji and the New Hebrides, but Yamamoto also had the decisive battle to fight. Fletcher had already announced his navy’s presence on the 20th, and Yamamoto expected he would be willing to fight again: it was now just a question of where, and when. Too early, and a disaster could doom the second wave’s unloading efforts, too late, and fuel would make pursuit more difficult after victory. If the navies stayed on opposite sides of New Caledonia, his superior surface units including the mighty Yamato would not have the opportunity to engage, but if he went around the island then the cargo and support ships off the northern coast would be more exposed.
“What good is the fleet if we don’t ever use it to fight?” Yamamoto remarked to Yamaguchi as he drew up his attack plan on the night of the 20th. “If we surround the island, Fletcher can either fight, and give us the carriers, or run, and give us Noumea. Either way, a blow will be dealt, and the death of the other shall follow.” Within two hours, Yamamoto was giving out orders once more.

On board the Saratoga, Fletcher was less concerned about the decisive battle that was referenced so many times in intercepted Japanese messages. While he was prepared to fight the Japanese, he knew that the Allies’ greatest weapon in this war was time: the longer the conflict dragged on, the more of an advantage America’s enormous industrial capabilities would be.
It was this line of thinking that led him to request the transfer of MacArthur’s submarines to his command. Attrition would weaken the Japanese just as effectively as a single large confrontation would. His target was not Yamamoto’s warships, which would surely show up for battle at some point, but his slow, vulnerable cargo ships. If enough of those were sunk, operations in New Caledonia would become impossible.
The first time this strategy would be tested would be the second invasion convoy, which left Port Vila in the evening of the 21st. Six submarines were positioned in the waters between Efate and Thio, where they would ambush the convoy in the mid-morning of the 22nd. Several ships were hit, but only two suffered serious damage: one would sink shortly afterwards, the other limped on to Thio, to be unloaded and then scuttled. The strategy showed promise, especially in light of Japan’s ineffective ASW tactics which failed to damage any of the submarines. Poor quality torpedoes would once again prove an issue however, preventing no fewer than three more critical hits on Japan’s most vulnerable ships. Had they been as effective as the dreaded Japanese ‘Long Lance’, the second wave may have never made it ashore at all.

While the second wave began to unload at Thio, a desperate race for control of central New Caledonia was unfolding. General Yi was pushing south with whatever forces were available, hoping to secure as much land as possible before he met the Americans: once the two sides met, every following inch of land would have a price measured in blood. On the other side of the mountains, General Patch’s force was dispersed across the island: west of the village of Moindou was the 132nd Regiment, tasked with the defence of the western half of the island; next was the 182nd Regiment, closest to the Japanese with their bases along the Ouameni river at the village bearing the same name; further east, the 164th Regiment would defend Tontouta and Noumea.
Only two roads of any consequence serviced the battlefields-to-be: a north-south route through the mountains connecting the villages of Thio and Bouloupari, and a longer road parallel to the island’s southern coastline. The first would be used by the Japanese as they advanced through the hills, while General Yi hoped to cut the American defences in two by occupying part of the second road: this road would then be used by the Japanese as they marched on Noumea. With a holding force left to guard the western flank, the Japanese could feel secure in their plans: few north-south routes existed further west while the mountains would obstruct other paths, and the best the northern coastline could offer was a series of mule tracks. Short of another amphibious landing, neither side would be able to outflank the other.

In the race to control the mountain road, General Yi had the advantage. While his forces had landed immediately in front of the road, the 182nd Regiment had been based twenty kilometres west of Bouloupari at the road’s southern end, and the other American regiments were too far away to be of use in the initial battle. The Japanese rushed south just as they had in Fiji, while Patch grew concerned over where the second Japanese invasion force was to land: if the first wave was just a diversion, he could not risk exposing Noumea to the second. The 132nd Regiment would eventually be directed to head east once it became clear that the Japanese had no interest in the island’s west, but only after Yi’s troops met the Americans just 10 kilometres north of Bouloupari, at the very edge of the mountain range.
Once the battle began however, it would be the Americans who held the best cards. Much of Yi’s heavy equipment, including tanks, cars and artillery, was still at sea in the second wave, as Yamamoto and Hyakutake had decided bodies would be more important than equipment for the first. While the Japanese outnumbered the American regiment, the American equipment, including some M4 ‘Sherman’ tanks, could make up the difference. The remnants of the area’s bad weather continued to ground air forces, leaving field commanders uncertain of their position in the battle. After a short clash, it was Yi who decided to retreat first, feeling that he would need his reinforcements to break out of the mountains. The American commander, waiting on the 132nd Regiment from the west, occupied the battlefield but decided further pursuit into the mountains would be unwise.

- BNC
 
Shermans in combat already? Heck yeah!

That said. if Japan is encountering sherms this early I wonder if we'll see earlier devlopment of the Chi-Ha Kai and Chi-He?
 
Shermans in combat already? Heck yeah!

That said. if Japan is encountering sherms this early I wonder if we'll see earlier devlopment of the Chi-Ha Kai and Chi-He?
Chi-Ha Kai = Shinhoto right? Because those were used at Corregidor. Not much need for accelerating development there.

As for the Chi-He, IOTL those were all kept in the Home Islands to prepare against Downfall and carrier production had priority for steel anyway. With an extra six months or so of knowing about the Sherman, a minor boost to production might be possible but I don't see how that translates to anything more significant than maybe a handful getting sent to Leyte or something. I'll give it some thought, but I don't think there's a whole lot of use for them.

- BNC
 
I'm suprised De Gaulle (from the earlier post) didn't send any kind of force to defend New Caledonia
Honestly I forgot about the Free French armies entirely even when I was writing about de Gaulle :eek:

Now that you've reminded me about them, I'm not sure how much possibility there is of sending a real force to NC. The Australians and NZers have already pulled their forces out of Egypt, taking the Free French out as well is going to weaken Montgomery quite considerably and I'm not sure Churchill would be willing to accept that: Suez is much more prestigious and considered more important that NC (or anything in the South Pacific for that matter), and unlike the Aussies and NZers, the French wouldn't even be able to say they're defending their homes - only a handful at best would even be from NC.
Then there's the matter of actually getting them there: transport in the area is already overstretched - moving the A/NZers, preparing for Torch, all the stuff related to building up Tonga and supplying the existing garrisons in Samoa and NC. And Noumea harbour is congested and overloaded to the point that massive queues of ships are waiting outside the port. Not really something that suggests "hey we could do with more mouths to feed and guns to load".

I'd be surprised if there wasn't already a sizeable Free French military presence on the island alongside the Americans however - if De Gaulle needs to fill propaganda reels with the bravery of French soldiers I'm sure those men would suffice.

- BNC
 

Errolwi

Monthly Donor
Honestly I forgot about the Free French armies entirely even when I was writing about de Gaulle :eek:
...

I'd be surprised if there wasn't already a sizeable Free French military presence on the island alongside the Americans however - if De Gaulle needs to fill propaganda reels with the bravery of French soldiers I'm sure those men would suffice.

- BNC

I've just remembered this podcast episode about the RAN and the FF in NC 1942. Can't remember any details.
https://chartable.com/podcasts/aust.../17859307-s3e2-hmas-adelaide-in-new-caledonia
Or if you prefer visuals of blokes in suits sitting on couches.
 
XXI: Rolling the Dice (10/42)
XXI: Rolling the Dice, October 1942

The storm clouds cleared to reveal open skies on the morning of the 23rd. Yamamoto had hoped for another day of bad weather so that he could position his navy for a surface duel not far from Noumea. As things were, the bulk of his fleet: three battleships including Yamato, the carriers Soryu and Hiryu, four heavy cruisers and seventeen destroyers – was in the middle of a great movement around the west of New Caledonia, by 0600 they were roughly 100 kilometres south of Koumac. Reconnaissance efforts indicated that Fletcher’s navy was located nearly due south of Noumea.
Fletcher knew that Yamamoto was coming, with intelligence officers bringing him a list of Japanese ships allocated to the operation two days earlier and coastwatchers confirming the Japanese movements west of New Caledonia. Those reports indicated that Yamamoto’s flagship was the Yamato, at this point believed to be a Japanese heavy cruiser. That belief would cause considerable confusion among the Allied command, as three battleships had been sighted but only two reported, and while it was obvious that a reporting error existed, no-one could yet be certain where it had come from.
While Yamamoto was willing to risk exposing his landing beaches to Allied attack (only the Akagi and her escorts had been left near Thio to protect the cargo ships), Fletcher felt that his fleet would need to stay near Noumea. Even after taking the emergency step of ordering local New Caledonians to help unload ships, Noumea’s docks were still overcrowded and several weeks’ supplies were still sitting on ships waiting to be unloaded. Protecting those ships would be an important part of New Caledonia’s defence, leading Fletcher to declare their defence as the greatest priority in the upcoming battle with Yamamoto. His second objective needed only three words: “sink the admiral”. As long as Yamamoto was around, he was sure that the IJN would remain a powerful threat.

The Japanese bombers reached the Americans first, although Yamamoto’s lack of detailed information regarding his enemy’s position ensured that his aircraft were dispersed across a 300 kilometre arc south of Noumea when the Americans were spotted. Those aircraft that could attack immediately did, primarily targeting the Saratoga and Enterprise, each of which suffered several bomb and torpedo hits. Fires broke out in numerous parts of Saratoga, leading Fletcher to order all of the carrier’s aircraft be landed on New Caledonia when they returned, although damage control teams eventually extinguished the blazes with few casualties. Enterprise suffered lighter damage, and while the flight deck was damaged, this was easily repaired after the battle’s conclusion.
The rest of the Japanese aircraft, redirected from the south, arrived half an hour later to one of the war’s greatest clashes of airpower so far. In addition to the CAP aircraft of Fletcher’s three carriers, every available fighter based on New Caledonia had been ordered into the skies (elsewhere on New Caledonia, the Japanese were busy unloading the second wave, leaving Efate’s air groups unavailable for the fight at sea). In the confusion of battle, the Japanese pilots did not even think to look for the Wasp, which was known to be in the area, and believed the Saratoga was about to sink. Instead, they dropped their ordnance on the South Dakota, which was heavily damaged, and at least three destroyers, two of which were sunk.

Because Yamamoto had intended to fight a surface battle, his cruisers and battleships were positioned almost thirty kilometres forward of his carriers. When the American bombers reached the fleet, it was these ships that were discovered first. Under orders to destroy Yamamoto’s flagship, the Americans attacked. As Yamato was still a relatively unknown design, the pilots had not been trained to recognise it, and many attacked the four heavy cruisers that were present: Atago, Chikuma, Suzuya and Kinugasa, with each suffering considerable damage. Atago and Kinugasa would collide soon afterwards and sank, while Chikuma would be destroyed by a large explosion caused by an American bomb. Suzuya would survive, only to be destroyed in a devastating raid on Truk later in the war. The loss of the three highly-regarded cruisers would be a great blow to the Navy’s prestige.
The presence of a never-before-seen battleship far larger than anything previously encountered did not go unnoticed by many American pilots however. Such a behemoth was an obvious choice for an admiral’s flagship, and instead of diving on the ruined cruisers, those pilots instead attacked the Yamato, which was firing off huge quantities of anti-aircraft shells in an attempt to bring down its attackers. Despite nine bomb hits, the attacks failed to do any serious damage to the giant ship. “That,” one American pilot said as he landed on the Enterprise, “was no heavy cruiser!”

Yamamoto was pleased when reports of the battle began coming in. Although nearly forty aircraft and the three cruisers had been lost, he was told of the sinking of two US carriers and one battleship, which would make the battle an unquestionable victory for Japan. After seven days of operating near New Caledonia, the fleet was running out of fuel, and if a second strike was to be launched it would have to be done soon: the planned surface action had been called off after the battle had begun – pushing forward into the path of a hundred of more US bombers would be a good way to lose a battleship or two. But the decisive battle had yet to destroy America’s last battleship and carrier – the second strike had to go forward.
Considerably weaker than the first strike, the second strike was forced off course by the appearance of a great swarm of American planes. Realising the danger, the pilots radioed back to the Yamato warning that another attack on the battleship was likely, while desperately trying to avoid the Wildcats themselves. The Japanese soon found three US destroyers and a light cruiser, which were now taking the positions where the US carriers had been in the morning: without any surviving scout planes in the nearby area to tell them where the Wasp was likely to be found, these ships would bear the brunt of the Japanese attacks. As sunset approached, Yamamoto knew there was no time for a search effort: the decisive battle would have to be called off. When the surviving Japanese aircraft returned to the fleet, they found the Soryu in flames.

The carrier would be scuttled 40 minutes later.

- BNC
 
View attachment 506909
Yellow represents the reefs, blue being the landing beaches.

While carriers probably don't fit through that corridor, smaller cargo ships and landing craft should do alright, as long as the men guiding the ships don't decide to ram straight into the coral. I wouldn't want to try landing 50,000 at once there, but there's enough space for 10,000 assuming the Japanese aren't being stupid. Most of the men involved in NK have also been a part of the Fiji operation, which had smaller but still notable reefs to consider (though not immediately at the landing site), so I think it is reasonable to say that most would handle it alright.

But unlike Fiji, this landing won't go perfectly. More on that next update.

- BNC

Do you have access to hydrographic maps on the part of the coast?

The last I looked, I thought that even the submerged parts of the reefs on the east coast did not allow more than 12-15 feet of depth at best, but I confess I don't have access to my files on that right now.
 
Do you have access to hydrographic maps on the part of the coast?

The last I looked, I thought that even the submerged parts of the reefs on the east coast did not allow more than 12-15 feet of depth at best, but I confess I don't have access to my files on that right now.
I looked for them, but the best I was able to find was a large one of the whole island, with 50m scale - probably not too useful (even the water around Noumea is marked as <50m deep).

However, I also found this tourist site for a beach near Thio (if it isn't the one I specified the landings for, it's very close), which makes mention of a 1909 sinking of a nickel ship, fifteen metres deep and "a few cables" away from the shore (which could be anything from half to one kilometre).
Adding to that, one of the large transports used by the Japanese at Midway was converted to the escort carrier Kaiyo throughout 1943, after which it had a draught of a little over 8 metres, and the Daihatsu landing craft they used had a draught of a little less than 1 metre.

So unless an expert in amphibious landings tells me otherwise, I believe that beach would work as a landing site.

- BNC
 
Shame about the cruisers. They're probably worth about as much as the Yamato itself. Any one of them sure as heck did a lot more OTL than that behemoth ever did.

By the way, really good stuff here.
This is a really top notch Pacific war timeline.
 
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Once again showing that military intelligence is an oxymoron.

How many days of berthing time will it take to get the two American carriers able to launch planes again? I'm imagining they'll be out of the picture for the coming month at least.

the Yamato, which was firing off huge quantities of anti-aircraft shells in an attempt to bring down its attackers.
Given it's Japan, that's probably slightly more effective than firing off no anti-aircraft shells.

Did the Yamato fire any shells at that light cruiser? Or were those ships hit by the aircraft? Bit embarrassing to waste the second strike on the escorts hmm?

EDIT: Who hit the Sóryú? The Wasp?
 
How many days of berthing time will it take to get the two American carriers able to launch planes again? I'm imagining they'll be out of the picture for the coming month at least.

Saratoga will need a couple of months back at Pearl or somewhere for an extensive refit - in combat terms it's better than a floating wreck but not much better.
Enterprise's damage can be (for a while at least) solved by putting some sheets of metal over the holes in the flight deck and not trying to fire the engines at full power - an emergency trip to Brisbane to get some things patched up will allow it to be cleared for combat again. Hornet is now being sent down to replace it (the Americans can't afford to have just one carrier against at least three known Japanese), but until it gets there the damage will just have to be dealt with.

Did the Yamato fire any shells at that light cruiser?
No, there's still more than 150km between the two fleets.

Or were those ships hit by the aircraft? Bit embarrassing to waste the second strike on the escorts hmm?
"Our targets were the escorts all along!" says some Japanese commander when he is questioned. "Our air crews served the Emperor well by sinking them"

EDIT: Who hit the Sóryú? The Wasp?
Pick your favourite US and Japanese carrier present at the battle. They are responsible for the most important hits :)

EDIT: Fixed my comments because Wasp was never hit during the battle, but Enterprise was. Got confused because I had changed what carriers get hit not long before posting! x'D

- BNC
 
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XXII: Bouloupari (10/42)
XXII: Bouloupari, October 1942

The Naval Battle of New Caledonia had been a costly defeat for Yamamoto, but the threat it presented to Fletcher’s navy distracted the Americans enough to allow the second wave of transports to be unloaded at Thio with minimal interference. Alongside the 5000 men, the ships brought much-needed food and ammunition, several light artillery and anti-air guns, and 24 Type 95 Ha-Go tanks. As the Imperial Navy departed for Rabaul and Truk, General Yi was once again on his own. When the reports came in saying that the crippled Kaga had been sunk by an American submarine, he felt more isolated than ever.
As the American resolve stiffened in the foothills, Yi knew that he would need every ton of supply and weaponry he could get. While scouts reported that the force facing him at present was not especially large, captured documents found in Fiji had made reference to an entire US Division, whose whereabouts was yet unknown. It was a safe bet that some of them were in or near Noumea, but Yi was even more sure that everything not deemed necessary for the defence of that city would be directed towards stopping him. New Caledonia was a large island, but not so large that forces on the other side could be ignored. He had to move immediately.

By dawn of October 26th, most of Yi’s reinforcements had made it to the frontlines, and the general wasted no time assembling his offensive. The Japanese tendency to attack as soon as supplies were received would be noted by one American veteran of New Caledonia, who when interviewed after the war said: “It was as if they thought their bullets would rot in the heat of the jungle. If we heard about Jap ships in the area it was never more than a couple days before their men followed.” The American regiment facing Yi had at times heard the planes flying past and had been preparing for the inevitable Japanese attack, and when their hated enemies came, they were ready.
Despite being outnumbered by almost 3:1, and operating on lower ground than the Japanese, the Americans managed to repulse Yi’s first assault. Yi’s tactics in this attack were notably unimaginative, ordering his forces to break in to the US lines near the road and then overwhelm them with superior numbers. The action cost Yi just shy of 600 men, the Americans 112.
Deciding that brute force alone wouldn’t work, Yi turned his attention to a ten-kilometre ridge east of the road. The northern part of that ridge had been in Japanese hands for several days, while the valley to the east was thought to be unoccupied by anything more than small patrols. Yi ordered nearly half of his men into that valley, hoping to force the Americans out of their prepared positions nearer the road. Instead, they found the American lines thinning but still present all the way to the ridge’s end.
This apparent weakness, no doubt caused by the Americans’ local numerical inferiority (itself caused by a lack of good roads in New Caledonia), prompted Yi to order the ridge be assaulted directly. Japanese losses were again heavy, but the ridge was taken, forcing the Americans to abandon the position near the road. An effort to fall back on the village of Bouloupari was made, but Japanese forces sweeping west from the ridge soon made a proper defence of the village impossible, and by the end of the 28th, the village was in Japanese hands. The coastal road had been cut in two.

General Patch’s headquarters were in panic, with the better part of two regiments stuck on the western half of the road when the Japanese assault would be heading east. Forces in the west were unlikely to get pushed back any further, for the 132nd Regiment reached the 182nd’s position on the 29th. The two regiments now manned the west bank of a river just west of Bouloupari, extending between the coast and a large mountain, a position that would require the crossing of even more difficult terrain if it was to be outflanked. With nothing important behind it, the position was not likely to be attacked in any serious way.
The presence of a force almost as large as Yi’s west of Bouloupari posed a challenge for the Japanese commander: although he too had no intention of crossing the river separating his force from his enemy’s, if he devoted too much attention to the thrust towards Noumea he risked the Americans breaking out and cutting his force off from the Thio road, or even being attacked from the rear. On the other hand, if he committed too much to protecting the western flank and the vital road behind it, he would not have enough men available to fight the defences in front of Noumea. The predicament caused him to split his force in half: 7,000 to guard the west, 7,000 to strike east. An urgent call was made to Rabaul for more men, but the thousands of kilometres separating them meant it reinforcements could not come quickly.

Unable to afford delay, Yi began moving on Noumea on October 29th. Now in relatively open ground, this offensive was exposed to air attacks even where Patch’s infantry did not make an appearance. Two rivers separated Yi from Tontouta airfield, his first objective of any real worth on the island. The first was crossed without any great difficulty, only for the Japanese to find the US 164th Regiment not far behind it. Patch, having been told of Yi’s call for reinforcements, ordered the regiment push the offensive. The Americans gained ground and forced Yi back over the river they had just crossed.
As October became November, both sides were content to hold their positions on the rivers for the time being. They looked out to the promised reinforcements: the 48th Division for the Japanese and the 3rd Marines for the Americans, knowing that whoever could be reinforced first would hold the upper hand, not just in New Caledonia, but in the Pacific War as a whole.

- BNC
 
Damn, that's three Japanese carriers lost so far I think? Have any USA carriers been a total loss since Coral Sea?

The fighting on land remains closely matched I see. I'm guessing NewCal really will be TTL's turning point in the pacific. (Really though, even if Japan did win what could they do with their liimted manpower, fuel, and surviving carriers? Their lack of convoy raiders wouldn't allow them to interdict communications that much.)
 
Damn, that's three Japanese carriers lost so far I think?
Four: Soryu, Kaga, Zuikaku and Shoho. Now that I think about it this is much less of a Japan-wank than I had thought it was x'D

Have any USA carriers been a total loss since Coral Sea?
Going through the list:
Langley - sunk at Java
Lexington - sunk at Coral Sea
Saratoga - wrecked, back in action 43
Ranger - doing something in the Atlantic
Yorktown - sunk at Coral Sea
Enterprise - damaged, in action
Wasp - undamaged, in action
Hornet - undamaged, coming south.

Doesn't look like I sank any. Washington would be the biggest loss.

Really though, even if Japan did win what could they do with their liimted manpower, fuel, and surviving carriers? Their lack of convoy raiders wouldn't allow them to interdict communications that much.
How much does "give Australia and New Zealand enough of a headache to get them to make peace" count? Because that and a decisive battle are pretty much the extent of Japanese planning (reading through their OTL plans, it is amazing how little they thought this operation through!)

- BNC
 

Errolwi

Monthly Donor
How much does "give Australia and New Zealand enough of a headache to get them to make peace" count? Because that and a decisive battle are pretty much the extent of Japanese planning (reading through their OTL plans, it is amazing how little they thought this operation through!)

Yeah, it isn't as if it is possible to starve AU and NZ out. Mus up their economies a fair bit, sure (as imports need to be heavily escorted).
 
Four: Soryu, Kaga, Zuikaku and Shoho. Now that I think about it this is much less of a Japan-wank than I had thought it was x'D


Going through the list:
Langley - sunk at Java
Lexington - sunk at Coral Sea
Saratoga - wrecked, back in action 43
Ranger - doing something in the Atlantic
Yorktown - sunk at Coral Sea
Enterprise - damaged, in action
Wasp - undamaged, in action
Hornet - undamaged, coming south.

Doesn't look like I sank any. Washington would be the biggest loss.


How much does "give Australia and New Zealand enough of a headache to get them to make peace" count? Because that and a decisive battle are pretty much the extent of Japanese planning (reading through their OTL plans, it is amazing how little they thought this operation through!)

- BNC[/QUOTE
Will learn any lessons from this? Because this feels kinda of like a mini-Midway. The decisive battle thing is never going away but maybe they'll be theymore cautious? I mean, if they had just kept going they were bound to get into a disastrous battle and lose a ton of stuff all at once.
 
Will learn any lessons from this? Because this feels kinda of like a mini-Midway. The decisive battle thing is never going away but maybe they'll be theymore cautious? I mean, if they had just kept going they were bound to get into a disastrous battle and lose a ton of stuff all at once.

It's Yamamoto. I don't think he really knew the meaning of caution. The Japanese also think they've killed several US carriers instead of merely damaging them (two at New Caledonia, IIRC they thought they sank one after Doolittle as well), so on their side the numbers don't look so bad as they do to us.

FS has taught some lessons, the most important one probably being "transport ships are actually important and you should build them", but being cautious wouldn't have gotten them to Fiji.

- BNC
 
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