Operation drop shot war-best possible USSR performance

Status
Not open for further replies.

nbcman

Donor
How many planes did the USSR have that could reach CONUS with a nuclear payload?

Tu-95 intercontinental bombers were just being introduced by the Soviets in 1956 so there weren't that many available in 1957. Tu-4s (B-29 copies) might be able to reach parts of CONUS on a one way mission.

EDIT: They also had Tu-16s introduced in 1954 that had a 7500 km range but to strike much of the CONUS they would have to be on a one way mission as well.
 
Last edited:
So a ton of one way missions all while facing NORADs air defences yeah I wouldn't want to be a pilot in Soviet Long Range Aviation
 

SsgtC

Banned
Those crews (the ones left) are probably PISSED at this point just want revenge. I don't they'd take much convincing to one way it. Plus NORAD's defenses weren't really that much better than the USSRs. The only real advantage we'd have is that we would know they were coming

So a ton of one way missions all while facing NORADs air defences yeah I wouldn't want to be a pilot in Soviet Long Range Aviation
 
As mentioned, the Soviets had to stage their long range assets forward from their normal bases for even one way missions in most cases. The forward bases were relatively austere and they could not sustain the forces forward for any significant length of time. Depending on how long the buildup to DROPSHOT was, the number of aircraft deployed forward could be anywhere to a small percentage of the force to a large percentage. Naturally the more aircraft forward the better chance some of them have of making it to deliver their payloads to the USA one way or not. Don't forget that even if forward staged most if not all of the bombers do not have their weapons on board and ready to go, nor are they fully fueled. Bombing up and fueling will take some time, and these forward airfields will be among the first targets to be hit by the USA.

While of course one would not want to count on it, it would not be ASB for the USA between not all Soviet bombers being staged forward, airfields being hit before all of the deployed bombers taking off, and then the US/Canadian air defenses that actually no bombers reach their designated targets in North America. You could see some bombs dropped "at random", possibly on any urban area of any size that a bomber sees if it can't make it to the designated target or simply dropped somewhere rather than see it not used at all. Of course this is the maximum best case situation, but not ASB in this timeframe.

In terms of air defenses, SAMs in the 1955-1960 timeframe were just coming in to deployment except around Moscow. The SA-2 first deployed in 1958, so if you are looking at the 1955-1960 (DROPSHOT) timeframe there may or may not be any at any given target site. PVO doctrine was very heavily on ground control intercepts (GCI) and like everything else, heavily based on top down authority. The initial clearance drops would have a good chance of not only destroying or severely degrading airfields, radars, and GCI centers as well as trashing radio communications in general. Again, depending on the tensions at the time of attack, a relatively small percentage of the fighter force will be either in the air or on ground alert, and aircraft availability could be as low as 50-60%. Any fighters that get airborne and survive will be looking for someplace to land and that field will need mechanics, spare parts, and ammunition not just a place to refuel. Degradation of the air defense will be severe, command and control in bad shape.

The initial strikes could suffer pretty bad losses, but with exception of Moscow and perhaps a couple of other major targets, the subsequent waves will do much better. Don't forget that the USSR will have to deal with strikes from the USA, and to a lesser extent the UK, that are coming from almost every angle. In 1955-1960 the USA has bases in North Africa that can strike from the south, as well as carriers in the Med and the potential of tactical aircraft carrying out nuclear strikes from Turkey. You have strikes coming from the UK, and again possible tactical strikes from everywhere in NATO. Of course there are the strikes from the USA east and west coast, the Navy Regulus subs and carriers.
 
Operation Dropshot was the historical predecessor of SIOP. To understand how operation dropshot would have played out, one has to understand how the correlation of power was in the 1950s.

NATO had a way larger economy and population than the Socialist bloc. If they mobilized their forces and converted their industry from civilian to military production,
the Soviets would have zero chance to win.

So NATOs plan was to launch a (nuclear) first strike, to cause as much damage as possible to the soviet economy and war efforts. Then they would transfer their forces from north america to europe and conquer the socialist nations.

The Soviet plan on the other hand, was to bring as much distance between their border and the frontline as possible after NATO attacked. So effectively launch a pre-emptive invasion of West Germany, to make a continuation of the war as costly as possible for NATO (and therefore hopefully unattractive).

The US government even said themselves, that their plan was a first strike against the Soviets (who knew well that they couldn't beat the americans, and therefore tried everything to prevent a war).

The plan was, quote: "To impose the national war objectives of the United States on the USSR and her allies."

http://www.allworldwars.com/Dropshot - American Plan for War with the Soviet Union 1957.html

This is the document.

So much for a defensive plan. Operation Dropshot was an all-out aggressive plan by the US, to conquer the eastern europe, just as Napoleon and Hitler had tried. The only difference is that they would likely have succeeded, and WAY more people would have died in nuclear hellfire.
 
There is a hard copy book out there, but its hard to find. I lost my copy in a fire but will eventually replace it. The website above has everything that was in the book.

I have OPERATION: WORLD WAR III - The secret American Plan 'Dropshot' for War with the Soviet Union 1957 Edited by Anthony Cave Brown Arms & Armour Press 1978 ISBN 0-85368-123-6
HTHs
 
I think people are ignoring the political consequences of the United States launching a pre-emptive genocidal attack on hundreds of millions of people. It doesn't take a communist sympathizer or a bleeding heart liberal to be against the nuclear annihilation of civilians, especially against an "enemy" that hasn't even attacked yet. The Soviet Union will be destroyed (if the attack goes through and the crews participating in the genocide don't mutiny) but the alliance between the US and Europe will be in total shambles and there will be huge unrest in the US as well.

At best, the US ends up a pariah state, European nations elect left governments, and the ChiComs laugh all the way to the bank
 
I think people are ignoring the political consequences of the United States launching a pre-emptive genocidal attack on hundreds of millions of people. It doesn't take a communist sympathizer or a bleeding heart liberal to be against the nuclear annihilation of civilians, especially against an "enemy" that hasn't even attacked yet. The Soviet Union will be destroyed (if the attack goes through and the crews participating in the genocide don't mutiny) but the alliance between the US and Europe will be in total shambles and there will be huge unrest in the US as well.

At best, the US ends up a pariah state, European nations elect left governments, and the ChiComs laugh all the way to the bank

Maybe, but that wouldn't stop them from initiating a preemptive attack if necessary. Better that than to let the Soviets gear up.

Also, as someone said on this board in response to this question a number of years ago, the US would get it's hair ruffled. Europe would get its teeth kicked in.
The Soviet Union would cease to exist.
 
Maybe, but that wouldn't stop them from initiating a preemptive attack if necessary. Better that than to let the Soviets gear up.

Also, as someone said on this board in response to this question a number of years ago, the US would get it's hair ruffled. Europe would get its teeth kicked in.
The Soviet Union would cease to exist.

Do we think the air crews would really be willing to finish what the Nazis started?
 
I'd think that nuclear winter and planetwide fallout poisoning would rather put a damper on the CONUS even if they were never nuked directly...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top