[ONGOING] What REALLY would have happened if the Ottomans won the siege of Vienna 1529

Poland, Italy (specially Rome, Venice and Malta), Spain and Portugal.
Russia also...

Here is most likely who France also will know better than being too friendly or allying with the Ottomans...
For the Dutch I am pretty sure who at this point we can prevent the reign of Mary I in England so Karl will leave the Netherlands to Maria instead of Philip (in OTL he was long undecided between them before Philip’s English wedding) and that will keep Burgundy/Netherlands as an united and loyal Habsburg domain.

Those are pretty interesting fronts to explore. In regards to France, I wouldn't imagine this damaging relations with the Ottoman Empire since in the early 16th century, it doesn't seem that Suleiman planned on challenging France's position in Europe overall, but his primary aims seem to have been with removing Hapsburg influence in Hungary. It would however be interesting to explore how France would take advantage of the situation, since they were allies with the ottoman empire as well.

I don't know too much about the Eighty Years war from 1568 so there's not much I can say as to how it would change. In regard to Poland, they were generally at peace with the Ottoman Empire for most of the 16th century until the 1590s, where they took advantage of the ottoman hapsburg wars to launch expeditions into Moldavia. This is generally where their relations began to deteriorate.

In regard to Portugal, well their main rivalry with the ottomans was through the red sea and partially in the persian gulf as well, so I'm not sure how much of a long term impact this event would have had.
 
If we assume that the Ottomans did manage to conquer all of Hungary following a successful siege in Vienna in 1529, could the Hapsburgs have eventually retaken any of it? Possibly but there is no doubt that they would have been in a significantly weaker position than the ottomans were in this TL.

Personally, I doubt this. At least in the near term. The Ottomans were much more hands-off as rulers than the Hapsburgs were, and it's hard to see them deciding to rule former Hapsburg Hungary directly anyways, given how distant it is from Constantinople. So most likely it is a vassal, or part of an expanded Transylvanian vassal (though most likely it would just be called "the kingdom of Hungary"), and as such, for at least the next century I'd expect the Hungarians to favour the Ottomans over the much too German (and probably still too religiously interventionist) Hapsburgs.

Now, after a century or two, there's plenty of scope for the Hapsburgs to retake Hungary if they've had better fortune than the Ottomans. For example, a plague running through the Ottoman world at a time when the Hapsburgs have managed to unite Germany under their rule or simply have not so many distractions and are thus able to capitalize on the Ottoman weakness... Yeah, that's totally possible even if the Ottomans have otherwise been having an absolute ball and crushing all comers.

The Ottomans taking Vienna would be a major crisis for the Habsburg and would force them to compromise earlier with the Lutherans, including the ones in their own domains. If Charles V have to compromise this early instead of late in his reign, it would be great as he avoid spending his entire life fighting them.

I have difficulty seeing Charles V compromising. I would have expected him to instead double down to ensure that Germany was Catholic and united.

But Ottoman attention being needed for the Persian matter and sheer distance will, in my opinion, minimize the impact on Europe. The Hapsburgs lose Hungary, but they aren't much reduced, since their wealth and power is in Spain, Flanders and Bohemia and they get time to recover themselves. The Ottomans, once the war with Persia is over, are likely going to turn their attention to the Ukrainian Steppes or dominating the Eastern Med (where Venice is their main antagonist). They aren't going to try to conquer Prussia or Spain - both are much too far for their lines of supply to support a serious army at such a distance. Further attacks of Vienna may be on the cards, but again, those aren't going to result in big territorial shifts.

What the victory could mean is that the Hungarian plain and the northern Balkans are more secure against raids and invasion, so are more populous and prosperous. And Hungary in particular could turn into a great refuge for Protestants and Calvinists from the religious strife in Catholic Europe. I would expect that to mainly be driven by the vassal kings and major land owners of Hungary, but we may occasionally see the Ottoman Sultan get involved a little. The Sultan being the protector of the Protestants in Central Europe would be... Interesting.

fasquardon
 
Personally, I doubt this. At least in the near term. The Ottomans were much more hands-off as rulers than the Hapsburgs were, and it's hard to see them deciding to rule former Hapsburg Hungary directly anyways, given how distant it is from Constantinople. So most likely it is a vassal, or part of an expanded Transylvanian vassal (though most likely it would just be called "the kingdom of Hungary"), and as such, for at least the next century I'd expect the Hungarians to favour the Ottomans over the much too German (and probably still too religiously interventionist) Hapsburgs.

Now, after a century or two, there's plenty of scope for the Hapsburgs to retake Hungary if they've had better fortune than the Ottomans. For example, a plague running through the Ottoman world at a time when the Hapsburgs have managed to unite Germany under their rule or simply have not so many distractions and are thus able to capitalize on the Ottoman weakness... Yeah, that's totally possible even if the Ottomans have otherwise been having an absolute ball and crushing all comers.

I think this is logical. As i mentioned in a previous post, some historians maintain that the Ottomans wanted to annex Hungary and others only that they wanted to establish Hungary as a vassal state, and only began to annex it in 1541 when it became clear that it was not able to withstand the Habsburgs on its own.

In either case, by 1529 the Ottomans weren't ready to annex Hungary yet, even if they were ultimately planning to do so. The goal of the 1529 campaign was therefore to solve the Hungarian issue in one fell swoop. I think what would likely happen is a Hungarian kingdom which encompasses most of the former Kingdom Of Hungary, but as a client state of the Ottoman Empire. I think as long as the ottomans keep a fairly hands off approach, and don't seek to expand further into Hungary, I would also expect the Hungarians to favour the Ottomans over the Hapsburgs.

Everything else you said is also true and possible in the future.
 
I have difficulty seeing Charles V compromising. I would have expected him to instead double down to ensure that Germany was Catholic and united.

In addition the Protestants might be bolder. An Ottoman victory at Vienna could be taken up by Protestant polemicists as proof that Catholicism isn't favoured by God whilst Protestant Princes might see it as a sign of Habsburg weakness and seek to assert themselves more vigorously.
 
In addition the Protestants might be bolder. An Ottoman victory at Vienna could be taken up by Protestant polemicists as proof that Catholicism isn't favoured by God whilst Protestant Princes might see it as a sign of Habsburg weakness and seek to assert themselves more vigorously.

That's a possible long term impact. In addition, depending on how well Suleiman plays his cards diplomatically after a successful siege, he could use this to his advantage by presenting Hungary as perhaps a place where anyone persecuted by Hapsburgs could go.
 
Top