On the succession of John III of Poland

[Yorel]

John III Sobieski (Jan III Sobieski in Polish, Jonas Sobieskis in Lithuanian) was King of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania from 1674 until 1696. Upon his death, there were no less than 18 candidates that were proposed for the Polish Throne. Among them, we had:

-Jakub Ludwik Sobieski, the eldest son of John III
-Aleksander Benedykt Sobieski, the second son of John III
-Konstanty Wladyskaw Sobieski, the third son of John III
-Maximilian II Emmanuel, Elector of Bavaria and son-in-law of John III
-Frederick Augustus I, Elector of Saxony, who had converted to Roman Catholicism in order to be eligible.
-François Louis, Prince de Conti, a cousin of Louis XIV of France, the latter being his main supporter.

The Prince de Conti eventually won the election but was very reluctant to go to Poland for various reason, leading him to delay his departure several times. When he finally arrived in Poland, Frederick Augustus I of Saxony had already beaten him there and had been crowned as King Augustus II of Poland. Conti didn't fought for the crown and turned back to France.

I have several questions regarding the succession of John III:

1) A Technical question: from what I understood by looking at the elective succession of the Polish Kings, the Poles seem to have always chosen relatives of previous Kings. Was that a criteria? And if so, from where came the the claims of the elector of Saxony and the Prince of Conti?

2) An informative question: apart from the six people I mentionned, who were the other candidates for the Polish Throne? And are there candidates that could have been eligible had they lived longer? Regarding the second part, I'm particularly thinking of Conti's eldest brother, Louis Armand.

3) In retrospect, what are the chances of the Poles not choosing either Frederick Augustus of Saxony nor the Prince de Conti? Who would have had the best chances in this case?

4) AH question: let's assume that the Prince de Conti wasn't so reluctant in becoming King of Poland and had left France earlier. Could he have been crowned King Francis I of Poland? If so, would the Elector of Saxony had fought for the crown? And what would be the consequences of having a Bourbon on the Polish throne?

 

[Yorel]

Bump

No one interested?

 

[Elfwine]

Interested but uninformed - I believe the "related to the previous king" is chance (at most a result of strings being there to be pulled) rather than law or even custom.

 

[Gonzaga]

1) A Technical question: from what I understood by looking at the elective succession of the Polish Kings, the Poles seem to have always chosen relatives of previous Kings. Was that a criteria? And if so, from where came the the claims of the elector of Saxony and the Prince of Conti?

I think at first they tried to keep it somehow related to blood connections but then just gave up. Henry III and Stephen Bathory didn't have connections with the Polish royal house, but needed to agree with their marriage to Anna Jagiellon. Then the Vasas clearly were relatives of them, but with their failed politics after the Deluge the Poles elected the native magnate Michael I, and from there they didn't care for blood connections anymore.

2) An informative question: apart from the six people I mentionned, who were the other candidates for the Polish Throne? And are there candidates that could have been eligible had they lived longer? Regarding the second part, I'm particularly thinking of Conti's eldest brother, Louis Armand.

Apparently there were eighteen candidates, but I could only find the names you already quoted, plus Louis William, Margrave of Baden-Baden (as the Prussian candidate) and Prince Henri de Condé, who was the French candidate before Conti.

4) AH question: let's assume that the Prince de Conti wasn't so reluctant in becoming King of Poland and had left France earlier. Could he have been crowned King Francis I of Poland? If so, would the Elector of Saxony had fought for the crown? And what would be the consequences of having a Bourbon on the Polish throne?

I think he could, but the Elector of Saxony had already an army prepared to invade if needed.

Here some useful information about that election: http://www.uni-mannheim.de/mateo/camenaref/cmh/cmh607.html#191

 

[The Professor]

I'm not au fait about the particulars of the Polish Election but with Elected Monarchies in general being a relation of the previous King would give you an advantage - people would assume that your relationship would provide you with more info on how to be a King than someone else.

And IIRC sons of Polish and Bohemian Kings had to be "confirmed" in their inheritance of the Kingship in a sort of Referendum.

 

[kasumigenx]

I had George of Denmark become a king of Poland in my TL to avoid his marriage to Queen Anne.

I like a Bourbon Poland.

 

[Yorel]

I think he could, but the Elector of Saxony had already an army prepared to invade if needed.

Even so, wouldn't Conti try to put a fight? We're talking about a scenario where he is more interested in getting the Polish crown (he was extremly reluctant OTL), so maybe an earlier arrival could allow him to levy troops and fight back.

He could also ask for French help: after all, his candidacy was supported by his cousin Louis XIV and the Sun King could very well intervene if he saw interesting prospects. On the other hand, it is more or less hinted (most notably by the Duc de Saint-Simon) that Louis XIV didn't liked the Prince of Conti and that his Polish election was some sort of way to get rid of him... Even if there would be advantages by having a Bourbon on the Polish throne, I'm not sure Louis XIV would go so far as to wage war to help someone he hates.

Another thing is that Tsar Peter the Great had made it clear that he wouldn't accept a French prince on the Polish throne... Maybe he could intervene to help and support Augustus II. And Russia being big and not far, maybe the Polish magnates would be less eager to support Conti in this case. That might discourage Louis XIV from helping his cousin.

I'm not sure how likely a War of Polish Succession between Conti and the Elector of Saxony would look, but it could have interesting results... After all, John III of Poland only died four years before Charles II of Spain: if there was a War of Polish Succession alongside the War of Spanish Succession, that would make one heck of a mess in Europe. Problem is that, in overall, the scenario doesn't seem very likely.

Here some useful information about that election: http://www.uni-mannheim.de/mateo/cam...mh607.html#191

Thanks for the informations. They are quite interesting.