Just for the sake of increasing the sons survivability.

But mandatory training (munera?) for the militia would be best IMHO.

=====

Caput Unus Et Tricesimus: The Gothic Campaign
In the Great Gothic War, the Battle of Axiopolis (1023 AUC [1]) had been the turning point. The army of the Goths, led by their ruler (kindins) Cannabaudes, had suffered a terrible defeat, and while Lucius was in Rome, his general Decius hunted down the last Gothic troops in Greece. Barely escapingfrom the Numidian Cavalry, Cannabaudesentered the city of Paloda.
There, he tried to organize the Gothic defense. Many Goths wanted to sue for peace, as long as an amicable arrangement with Rome was still possible. However, Cannabaudes was determined to pursue war by all means, mainly because he knew that Rome would impose harsh terms on Gothia and maybe end its existence as an independent country.
But among his fellow Goths who had once cheered him as the unifier of Gutthiuda, he met nothing more than disloyalty. The warriors wanted to returnto their families, to their farms, tents or cities; the Gothic aristocracy hadn't accepted the modern administration established by Cannabaudes and wanted to return to a more loose organization; last but not least, the allies wanted to leave Gothic domination, hoping to come to good terms with Rome if they changed sides.

When the Sarmatian allies of Gothia, the Roxolani, as well as the Celtic Bastarnae denied him loyalty, the Goths decided to get rid of Cannabaudes. The tragic events following were related by the Gothic author and historian Wulfila, who wrote a century after the occurrences, in his book Gothia's Fall (Gutþiudas gataúrþs). According to Wulfila, the Gothic chiefs (reikis) had gathered in Cannabaudes Roman style house at Paloda, where they formed the Gothic high council (gafaúrds).
At this day, Cannabaudes started to present his plans to assemble the remaining Gothic warriors and form a new army to stop the expected Roman invasion. His adjutant, who was part of the conjuration, came nearer as to present him the numbers needed to levy the new troops. Meanwhile, the others conspirators gathered around him, as if to express their respect, but under their elegant Greek dresses, they hid daggers. Others distracted thelifeguards, and when the right moment came, the plotters surrounded Cannabaudes, attacked him and wounded him to death.

Subsequently, a Gothic aristocrat, Filimer, was elected new ruler of the Goths to arrangea peace deal with the Romans. Filimer's envoys (who spoke perfect Greek) expected Rome to agree on a simple ceasefire, at the most to a moderate tribute. In fact, the Goths didn't intend to give Rome any guaranties for a durable peace. And this was completely unacceptable for the Roman authorities.
The Goths had, within two decades, caused hundreds of millions of losses by raids, plundering and destruction. Lucius, who was now emperor and thus responsible for the commonweal of his subjects, had to ensure that no threat against Rome would ever arise again out of Gothia. Therefor, he offered the Goths to become an autonomousclient kingdom of Rome's, protected by Roman troops against the attacks of steppe nomads.
But the Goths knew that a Roman protectorate was nothing more than the first steptowards a total provincialization; only the romanophiles, mostly civilized Goths living in the cities, argued for a for a peace with Rome, because they hoped to play a role within the coming Roman order. Their opponents, the misoromans from the steppe, who called themselves patriots, despised the Roman lifestyle and wanted to preserve their nomadic way of life based on raiding.

While the cities had no common ruler, the patriots were at least loosely led by Filimer, who was charged with the organization of the hopeless defense. On the other side, Lucius deployed his troops. Since the Moesian legions had to return to their positions on the Danube to prevent any Barbarian incursions, Lucius fetched 40,000 men of the Central Army [2] from Italy over to the front.
Gothia sank into total chaos, and given the fragmentation of the Gothic forces, the resistance against the Roman legions was useless. But while the cities were quickly conquered by the Romans, the steppe couldn't be easily occupied. The Romans simply hadn't the manpower to occupy each saltus [3] of the Sarmatian plain, and the war dragged on for several years.
Still, the Romans could rely on the Numidian forces, who crushed the Gothic steppe cavalry: The steppe in general proved to be a perfect battle ground for the Numidians, who did much damage by marauding through the Gothic hinterland. By 1027 AUC [4], Filimer and his last warriors surrendered to Rome, and the Great Gothic War, that had begun in 1022 AUC [5], ended.

[1] 270 CE
[2] The Central Army or comitatus fielded 50,000 men altogether at this point
[3] Roughly 2 km²
[4] 274 CE
[5] 269 CE
 
You know, a cavalry based Roman Military could easily reverse/reoccupy the Hunnic gains after adopting their Stirrup. Because by then the Areas invaded by the Huns would be in complete disarray and Rome could easily colonize/conquer it.
 
Are there any attempts by the Romans to adopt horse archers as opposed to javelin throwing light cavalry?In an even fight,horse archers will probably outfight the Numidians considering horse archers are able to provide a greater volume of fire at and do so at a much greater range than the Numidians.
 
Time to make a whoooooooole bunch of new Vassal states!

Oh yes;) The questions is: Will the new vassal states stay calm?

You know, a cavalry based Roman Military could easily reverse/reoccupy the Hunnic gains after adopting their Stirrup. Because by then the Areas invaded by the Huns would be in complete disarray and Rome could easily colonize/conquer it.

But if Rome conquers everything, this timeline will end to fast, don't you think so;)?

Are there any attempts by the Romans to adopt horse archers as opposed to javelin throwing light cavalry?In an even fight,horse archers will probably outfight the Numidians considering horse archers are able to provide a greater volume of fire at and do so at a much greater range than the Numidians.

I'll think about it. Also, there could be the possibility that the "Numidians" accept Hunnic/Alanic recruits in their ranks and slowly adopt horse archery as their primary tactic.

=====

Caput Tricesimus Secundus: A Mere Armistice?
Rome could now dictate the peace terms, and so it did. A radical faction of Lucius' generals, lead by the old fighter Decius, wanted to integrate the Goths into the Roman Empire – and indeed, the idea of turning the steppe into a Roman province was in the air. But since Lucius didn't want to overstretch the empire's resources by occupying an area twice as largeas Italy [1],the option of direct control over Gothia was rejected.
Subsequently, the Gothic High Council was summoned by Lucius to receive the terms of peace. On the 2nd of September 1027 AUC [2], the Gothic representatives agreed to the Peace of Phanagoria. Only the south of the Gothic territory was annexed by Rome, and the province of Sarmatia (encompassing southern Sarmatia) established.

Since the unity of the Goths was a constant threat to peace, the Gothic Kingdom was to be dissolved and Gothia to be divided into two republic ruled by the chiefs – one state for the Thervingi (Visigothia) and one state for the Greuthungi (Austrogothia). The Gothic states, client states of Rome, would have to pay a tribute as well as a high indemnity for the damage caused by the Gothic raids.
The Cimmerian Bosporus, as well as the Roxolani and Heruli, were liberated; the Bosporan Kingdom, as well as Roxolania and Herulia became (again) Roman client states and enjoyed Roman protection. Because the Steppe was, unsurprisingly, void of important settlements that could have been used as administrative centers, Lucius decided to found a capital for the Heruli, which should bear his name. The office of Duke of Taurica (Dux Tauricae) was created to supervise the different client states and provinces of the Black Sea, and was soon known as Vicarius or Handof the Emperor, just like the Magister Officiorum in the west.
Within the steppe, a flotilla patrolling on the rivers of Sarmatia was established, called Fleet of Sarmatia (Classis Sarmatiae). The task of the Sarmatian fleet was to contain the endemic piracy and make the Black Sea as safe as the Mediterranean one. Additionally, a new company, the Maeotian Company, was created in the north; the taxes paid by this company were used to fund the Sarmatian Fleet and the different Roman outposts.

Decius died shortly after the conclusion of the treaty (his son Herennius Etruscus became first Duke of Taurica); however, until his death, Deciuswas of the opinion that the Gothia, weather disunited or not, was a threat to Rome. Because he believed hat only a permanent occupation of Gothia would give Rome sufficient security against future invasions, he once wisely stated that the Peace of Phanagoria was nothing more than “an armistice for half a century.”

[1] OTL's Italy's area is roughly 301,000 km², Ukraine's 576,000 km²
[2] 274 CE


Taurica.jpg


The group of provinces and client states named Duchy of Taurica
(Ducatus Tauricae)
 
So the Romans finally begin the baby steps of steppe warfare. I'm looking forward to the Roman Cossacks! Pushing North and East! If the Romans can begin large scale agriculture in the region then the Empire could begin a new population boom with what is a cold second Egypt!

Although, amusingly, if the Romans do develop their own Cossacks, and develop Steppe Warfare, wars against the Alani, Hunni and Dahae are likely, as they all sit between Rome and the Sassanids. A strong steppe force can not just help in opening a second front against the Germanic peoples, but a second front with the Sassanids as Roman Cossacks would be able to invade Central Asia.

Ooooh, I'm so excited!
 
So the Romans finally begin the baby steps of steppe warfare. I'm looking forward to the Roman Cossacks! Pushing North and East! If the Romans can begin large scale agriculture in the region then the Empire could begin a new population boom with what is a cold second Egypt!

Although, amusingly, if the Romans do develop their own Cossacks, and develop Steppe Warfare, wars against the Alani, Hunni and Dahae are likely, as they all sit between Rome and the Sassanids. A strong steppe force can not just help in opening a second front against the Germanic peoples, but a second front with the Sassanids as Roman Cossacks would be able to invade Central Asia.

Ooooh, I'm so excited!
Yeah,Ukraine has the famous black soil that is extremely fertile as well.
 
All peace is temporary. Rome should not rest until the Gothic tribes are properly assimilated and made into good loyal citizens of the Empire.
 
Slow assimilation through Empowering the Pro-Roman faction in Gothia, encouraging division among them and binding the Protectorate into the economy of the Empire is the most efficient method of going about this.

But if Rome conquers everything, this timeline will end to fast, don't you think so;)?
But it is the logical conclusion. Rome's population will keep on growing and the only obvious area to expand into is the Steppe. This is inevitable since Chinese agriculture has arrived into the Empire along with the lack of ruinous civil wars in the Empire.
 
I wonder how technological progress is going by this point. All of the British Isles have been conquered right? Then to get to Hibernia and the Hebrides and such the Romans would have to adopt better ship technology to have footholds on those areas. Also has anyone developed something to make agriculture in Germania viable yet?

But if Rome conquers everything, this timeline will end to fast, don't you think so;)?

define 'everything'. If Rome (in some shape or form, like the Byzantines OTL but somewhere in the west) can make it to an era when colonialism is big then that should be loads of fun.

Slow assimilation through Empowering the Pro-Roman faction in Gothia, encouraging division among them and binding the Protectorate into the economy of the Empire is the most efficient method of going about this.

This, trying to gobble up too much new territory at once, especially when population in said territory are not very pro-roman is a bad idea. Slow assimilation is key

But it is the logical conclusion. Rome's population will keep on growing and the only obvious area to expand into is the Steppe. This is inevitable since Chinese agriculture has arrived into the Empire along with the lack of ruinous civil wars in the Empire.

Would Chinese agriculture even make that much of a difference? Sure rice has more yield per area than the crops the Romans have but all the upkeep that is required for growing rice from what I know makes it an inefficient food source compared to wheat. Also the nutritional value of a European diet is better as seen in late 19th century Japan the spread of an outbreak of a disease called beriberi which was actually caused by nutritional deficiency because people only ate white rice because it was cheap.
 

Skallagrim

Banned
Would Chinese agriculture even make that much of a difference? Sure rice has more yield per area than the crops the Romans have but all the upkeep that is required for growing rice from what I know makes it an inefficient food source compared to wheat. Also the nutritional value of a European diet is better as seen in late 19th century Japan the spread of an outbreak of a disease called beriberi which was actually caused by nutritional deficiency because people only ate white rice because it was cheap.

Of course, Chinese agriculture is more than just rice. Rice has historically been the staple of southern China; the north was more focused on wheat. I got the impression that the advantage Rome might gain ITTL has more to do with tech: certain types of ploughs, water conservation techniques, irrigation methods etc.
 

Skallagrim

Banned
Of couse! There are also ducks and sweet and sour sauce!

Riiiiiiiiight...


...but on a less whimsical note: something about this whole peace with the Goths. Is it somehow Lucius' thing to be really good at war and then make a peace that's... less than perfect? I mean, no adequate buffer states established after the last war with Persia, even though it was the perfect opportunity, and now... this. I get that it looks ambitious, but what is the reasoning here? Why annex Sarmatia, but not Roxolania? Sarmatia lengthens your borders considerably, and its creation separates the Roman (and Romanised) inhabitantst of the coastal cities from the inland Goths. How does that further Romanisation?

Annexing Sarmatia directly would have created a far superior border. Surely anyone can see that? And not annexing Sarmatia, but fusing it with Visigothia into a client state (presumably still called 'Sarmatia') would have created a nice buffer state with a Roman(ised) elite already present. Would that not have been the better strategy when the goal is to gradually Romanise the Visigoths? If truly ambitious, one might add the coastal strip right up to the 'neck' of the Crimea to this client state, thus denying the Austrogoths a strategic strip of coastline. And on that note: why not push the border of the Cimmerian Bosporus right up to that thinnest part of land as well? Far easier to defend, which is rather important considering that you don't want the Austrogoths marching in there again...

Basically (and this is very crudely edited from your map, as I have zero map-making skills), why wouldn't Lucius do this instead? It would be both easier to defend and it would be more effective in Romanising at least the Visigoths.

Taurica copy.jpg
 
the north was more focused on wheat

Really? I was under the Impression wheat and other grains didn't become an everyday crop in China until the 9th century.

Why annex Sarmatia, but not Roxolania

Sarmatia contains very old Greek colony cities so it already has a built up operating base, Roxolania you're pretty much starting from scratch with the exception of a few towns bigger than average and maybe a small city or two.
 

Skallagrim

Banned
Really? I was under the Impression wheat and other grains didn't become an everyday crop in China until the 9th century.

I'm fairly sure its use was expanded gradually, and was less common at earlier stages, but the arrival of wheat in China has been dated to c. 2500 BC (along the Hexi corridor), with the crop taking off c. 2000 BC and already being more widely spread by 1600-1500 BC. needless to say, that doesn't imply that it was already an everyday crop at such early stages, but the expansion of its use seems to have been gradual. I'm fairly certain that by this TL's timeframe, it is plausible for interested Romans to learn something from the Chinese regarding their techniques and technologies for wheat farming.


Sarmatia contains very old Greek colony cities so it already has a built up operating base, Roxolania you're pretty much starting from scratch with the exception of a few towns bigger than average and maybe a small city or two.

I know, but that first factor is - it seems to me - a reason to merge Sarmatia with the Visigothic realm. Get a Romanised elite over there, and start encouraging the Visigoths to follow their lead. Separating the Visigoths into their own state isn't going to do much good, I fear. And as for Roxolania; yes, that would be a tough job, but not impossible to handle, and to me, that much-improved border is just worth it.
 
Hmm, how is the situation in China going? Has the Three Kingdoms been going OTL or are they a little bit different? I think I could see Cao Pi or Sima Yi adopting Roman battle strategies and formations, I could also see the Romans adopting the Chinese crossbow. Integrating crossbows into the Testudo formation would be pretty good
 
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Of course. If you play Total War you always play a commander and never a legionary. It is virtual and no realistic training tool anyways.

Yes, Rome II has some substantial problems with realism and historical accuracy. But did you know that there is a strategy game (Alea Iacta est) with a scenario dealing with Trajan's Parthian War? I have to buy it:p

Also has anyone developed something to make agriculture in Germania viable yet?

Well, these are long-term developments, and I'm still struggling with the problem of literary description. Should I mention a proces/development when it starts to happen? When it happens? After it happened? Or should I mention it repeatedly, but then you might be bored by repetition?

Basically (and this is very crudely edited from your map, as I have zero map-making skills), why wouldn't Lucius do this instead? It would be both easier to defend and it would be more effective in Romanising at least the Visigoths.

Your map skills aren't the problem, the problem is that I made the map using layers;)

Lucius didn't do this because Romans didn't do this normally. Sure, there were exceptions, like Caesar's conquest of Gaul, but for most of the time, the Romans preffered to form client states and annex the territory later (Anatolia is a perfect example for this).

If you need a recent example, take Dacia. Dacia was conquered by Trajan, 150 years before Lucius. In the First Dacian War, Decebalus was beaten by Trajan, and Dacia accepted to became a client kingdom of Rome's. Despite Dacia's ressources, Rome had no reasons to provincialize/govern Dacia directly.
 
If you need a recent example, take Dacia. Dacia was conquered by Trajan, 150 years before Lucius. In the First Dacian War, Decebalus was beaten by Trajan, and Dacia accepted to became a client kingdom of Rome's. Despite Dacia's ressources, Rome had no reasons to provincialize/govern Dacia directly.
I thought the First Dacian war was when Emperor Domitian and Decebalus had that little spat.

Also, what happened to the Western Sarmatia province?
 
I thought the First Dacian war was when Emperor Domitian and Decebalus had that little spat.

Well, Domitian fought against the Dacians, as did Trajans. And Trajan had two Dacian Wars (the First and the Second one).

Also, what happened to the Western Sarmatia province?

That happens when you start writing without having a good concept... :oops: So there are two Sarmatias now. One in the west between Dacia and Pannonia and one in the east on the Black Sea.
 
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