Yes. And I have plans for Persia, but I need to elaborate.

Why I am afraid, you are trying to surprise us with a solution, nobody considered so far? :)

However, there are still these damn Goths! And also the Franks should have established their supertribe now, right? Looking to your last map about Germania, at least the Alemanns are butterflied away. But there are others.

Your TL approaches damn interesting times, dude. Time to find a stable solution for the East. Or at least for the next generation or more.

And last but not least, I am still not able to understand, why in your world romans don't usurp or conspire. ;)
 
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Well on the settlement of Germans in Persia (I'm not going to go over the mind bending insanity of quoting hundreds of posts) I think using Alans or ones close to the Caspian/Black sea would do nicely. Because you can march them outside of Roman territory so no worries about them betraying, and if you do decide to move some Germans from Germania then if you have a couple cohorts escort them the chances of them lashing out are less (especially if you split the individual german forces into manageable numbers).


Also how are developments on the western part of the Empire going?
 
I think using Alans or ones close to the Caspian/Black sea .....

Thank you very much. I was waiting for somebody mentioning the Alans. Is'nt the Caucasus border too silent, too? C'mon, this is 260 AD, it is time that the shit is going to hit the fan. And unfortunatley I don't see much plausible reasons, why this should not happen in this TL
 
The romans did that kind of crazy stuff. Like the Numerus Sarmatorum in Britannia or the Numerus Vandalorum in Egypt. But these were just military units as parts of a peace contract. To move entire tribes to the other end of the world made no sense to the romans obviously. How can we dare to disagree?

Why I am afraid, you are trying to surprise us with a solution, nobody considered so far? :)

The EmperorotNs has a very good solution... The Eastern Roman Empire sent the barbarians to the west, now the Roman Empire could sent the Goths to the east and have the Persians to the work...

And last but not least, I am still not able to understand, why in your world romans don't usurp or conspire. ;)

Wait wait. Until now, stability was preserved, but times will change.

However, there are still these damn Goths! And also the Franks should have established their supertribe now, right? Looking to your last map about Germania, at least the Alemanns are butterflied away. But there are others.

The Goths will be dealt with in the next post. The Franks will soon know what Lucius is able to achieve.

Your TL approaches damn interesting times, dude. Time to find a stable solution for the East. Or at least for the next generation or more.

There is no stable solution for the east if the Empire stays united. Look at what happened with Alexander the Great's empire - it was simply to big to be governed from one point.
 
it was simply to big to be governed from one point

yum! If what was said in an earlier post about the Roman empire being divided into three parts with there being the Western, the otl Eastern which might end up being called the middle, and the far eastern which would be Mesopotamia, Persia, maybe parts of Arabia, and if later down the line they want to go on and try some conquering to the east they might be able to conquer a bit of the Indus river region.
 
Not doable.What is stopping the Germans from stopping midway in transit and decide that they like your lands better?What will make the Germans believe that you will stick with your deal?

Plus if the Romans want to sic barbarians at uppity Persians, there are plenty of tribes in the east that can be courted by Roman ambassadors to do the Empire's bidding. Like the Scythians, the Alans, etc.
 
I don't think it's absolute that the empire is too big to govern.It's 'too big' to govern because an emperor cannot be everywhere,since without the emperor's direct presence leading the army,the legions might rebel.Depending on how things play out,this might not necessarily be the case.First off,the tradition of an army proclaiming any successful general emperor still hasn't set off,this is critical,since this means that the emperor still doesn't need to directly lead his armies on every front.Secondly,the army has been segregated from civil governance,this reduces the ability for generals to rebel.Third,Rome is still rich,it can afford to pay it's army well.Fourth,as I've mentioned,it's time to neuter the army--demobilize most of the regular army into part-time soldiers paid by land use and consolidate what's left over of the regular army into the comitatus--it's a much cost effective method than having a regular army often with nothing to do but fight other legions.Finally,Rome's enemies are nowhere near as powerful as they were in OTL,so the necessity of having multiple emperors isn't mandatory.
 
The EmperorotNs has a very good solution... The Eastern Roman Empire sent the barbarians to the west, now the Roman Empire could sent the Goths to the east and have the Persians to the work...

thx, and if they put the limes along the Elbe instead of the Rhine then they would probably have much better luck dealing with Germanic hordes.

And if they're at the Elbe perhaps they could give conquering Jutland a try? It seems very unrealistic but Jutland is flat enough for agriculture and is easily defensible (see: Danevirke) and going back to the flat part means that the Roman Legions would easily cut through tribes who do not yet know of Rome's effectiveness on the open field.

Of course they might need a heavy plow for farming that far North and unless someone in the Roman controlled Germania gets an Idea or something it won't be possible.

Then again, the Idea of a heavy plow might not be so far fetched if Governors in Germania try and get people to work out solutions to make their province(and by extension them) more wealthy and some grain to sell to the army would certainly bring in the big bucks.
 
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Also, if the Numidians are being introduced into the Roman military then will that mean other non-ethnically latin citizens of the Empire be put into the army en mass?
 
Also, if the Numidians are being introduced into the Roman military then will that mean other non-ethnically latin citizens of the Empire be put into the army en mass?
There were always non-latin soldiers put into the army en mass,they are called auxiliaries.A large part of the Roman cavalry came from Gauls,the Numidians and the Sarmatians while Cretans and Rhodians were valued for their skirmishing capabilities.The auxiliaries are not necessarily non-Roman citizens.It's quite common for descendants of auxiliaries to serve in auxiliary units long after their family has received their citizenship.
 
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There were always non-latin soldiers put into the army en mass,they are called auxiliaries.A large part of the Roman cavalry came from Gauls,the Numidians and the Sarmatians while Cretans and Rhodians were valued for their skirmishing capabilities.The auxiliaries are not necessarily non-Roman citizens.It's quite common for descendants of auxiliaries to serve in auxiliary units long after their family has received their citizenship.

Well of course I know what auxilaries are, I just meant with this new guy having such a fondness for them that they might be given a more prestigious title within the Military because as far as I know at the time auxilaries were looked down upon or somewhat feared by the average Roman soldier and if new guy likes them so much they would be more than just the 'foreigner skirmisher meat shields'.
 
Well of course I know what auxilaries are, I just meant with this new guy having such a fondness for them that they might be given a more prestigious title within the Military because as far as I know at the time auxilaries were looked down upon or somewhat feared by the average Roman soldier and if new guy likes them so much they would be more than just the 'foreigner skirmisher meat shields'.
It depends on whether you have a specialist role.Specialist auxiliary units like cavalry were much highly paid troops,their pay was essentially higher than legionaries of their equivalent rank.Differences between auxiliaries and legionaries also seemed to ceased after the edict of Caracalla.
 
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I had a feeling Lucius would become emperor,but I thought Alexander would be succeeded by his own son.

Lucius is Alexander's son ;)

I made a map of the current Empire for @EmperorOfTheNorthSea-

The Oikoumene at Alexander's death.jpg
 
yum! If what was said in an earlier post about the Roman empire being divided into three parts with there being the Western, the otl Eastern which might end up being called the middle, and the far eastern which would be Mesopotamia, Persia, maybe parts of Arabia, and if later down the line they want to go on and try some conquering to the east they might be able to conquer a bit of the Indus river region.

An empire divided into three parts is interesting. But I could imagine that the middle part would play the most important rule, because it has the most valuable territory (Egypt, Asia minor, the Danube provinces) under its control, while the eastern empire (Persia) and the western one (Rome and Gaul) can't beat the middle empire alone. If they unite to conquer it, they still can't rule it and will have to carve it up into three empires a second time.

Balkanize it by bringing in as many disparate groups into the area as possible.

That's a good idea! I'll think about it.

First off,the tradition of an army proclaiming any successful general emperor still hasn't set off,this is critical,since this means that the emperor still doesn't need to directly lead his armies on every front.Secondly,the army has been segregated from civil governance,this reduces the ability for generals to rebel.Third,Rome is still rich,it can afford to pay it's army well.Fourth,as I've mentioned,it's time to neuter the army--demobilize most of the regular army into part-time soldiers paid by land use and consolidate what's left over of the regular army into the comitatus--it's a much cost effective method than having a regular army often with nothing to do but fight other legions.Finally,Rome's enemies are nowhere near as powerful as they were in OTL,so the necessity of having multiple emperors isn't mandatory.

Yes, @darthfanta, principally you're right. The Spanish Empire was much greater and had enemies of comparable strength and a similar technology. However, it was governed from Madrid (with some viceroys in the colonies), so the Roman Empire, even with Mesopotamia, can be governed from one city. But I don't know if we can convince @Agricola. Do you think so;)?

thx, and if they put the limes along the Elbe instead of the Rhine then they would probably have much better luck dealing with Germanic hordes.

Yes, the Agri Decumates were already extended and the Alemanns defeated, and a campaign against the growing power of the Franks is now necessary. Though, once the Franks are submitted, only the Langobards, Burgundians, Saxons and the Vandals would remain as powerful enemies of the Romans in the west - not an insurmountable difficulty.

And if they're at the Elbe perhaps they could give conquering Jutland a try? It seems very unrealistic but Jutland is flat enough for agriculture and is easily defensible (see: Danevirke) and going back to the flat part means that the Roman Legions would easily cut through tribes who do not yet know of Rome's effectiveness on the open field.

If the Romans can deal with the Franks, the Saxons in Jutland shouldn't be a great problem.

Of course they might need a heavy plow for farming that far North and unless someone in the Roman controlled Germania gets an Idea or something it won't be possible.

Then again, the Idea of a heavy plow might not be so far fetched if Governors in Germania try and get people to work out solutions to make their province(and by extension them) more wealthy and some grain to sell to the army would certainly bring in the big bucks.

The heavy plow is in the air, it just needs to spread. But the task in Germania is much more serious: Clear the woods, pacify the tribes, build roads, establish an administration... The Romans need to start from zero and try not to repeat Varus' mistakes.

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Caput Vicesimus Septimus: The Rise of the Goths
The Severan Dynasty was an African family of Phoenician origin. They were focused on warm regions, and concentrated on southern and eastern regions. But even if we prefer speaking of beautiful and exotic cities, we have now to turn our attention to the Danube, away from the golden cities of the Orient.
Indeed, a new threat had emerged in the north – it seemed that tribes and peoples unheard until then had set into motion: Did the Barbarians finally unite in a common scheme to destroy civilization? Some Roman philosophers thought so, and their theory was soon taken up by Buddhist monks who preached indifference to the present and caused some serious trouble within Rome.
In the meantime, the Goths had arrived on the Black Sea and had become a problem on the Dacian border. Histria in Moesia had been sacked in 989 AUC [1], Marcianopolis in 994 AUC [2]; most importantly, a large invasion of Dacia, lead by the Gothic paramount leader Kniwa, caused great damage on both banks of the Danube. The Goths could only be stopped with great difficulty by General Decius in the Battle of Apollonia in 1004 AUC [3], and the Romans couldn't achieve more than a temporary peace.

This period of rest allowed the Romans to concentrate on the east and win the First Persian War. But the demographic pressure on the Gothic leadership was too high and the resources of the steppe too scarcely distributed for a durable peace. Soon, the gafaurds (council) overthrew Kniwa and replaced him with Cannabaudes, who became the new Judge of the Goths (kindins).
Because they encountered Roman resistance on the Danube, the Goths marched to the east and raided the Kingdom of the Cimmerian Bosporus, where they conquered several Greek colonies and seized the Bosporan shipyards.
Officially, the Goths were only allies of the Bosporan King Tiberius Julius Rhescuporis IV [4], himself a vassal of the Roman Emperor. But in fact, the Bosporans were completely helpless against the Gothic menace. Thus, the Gothic tribes (as well as their allies, Heruli and Roxolanes) became the new overlords of the Tauric Chersonese, and the desultory measures of the Roman military didn't change much.
New Gothic raids were to be expected.


[1] 236 CE (as in OTL)
[2] 241 CE (as in OTL)
[3] 251 CE
[4] An OTL king (BTW: I love this name)


Gothic Invasions - 1.jpg


Military action in the Black Sea, opening moves
 
@G.Washington_Fuckyeah

Agricola agreed that neutering the army by setting up themes or something similar is definitely a good start.

By the way,not sure what the Romans do,but is there a tradition of taking hostages from commanders?Would be a good idea to mandate the entire family of high ranking commanders to stay in the capital such that if they do rebel,their entire family gets executed.
 
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