Old World without New World

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by pa_dutch, Jul 18, 2005.

  1. pa_dutch Member

    Sep 19, 2004
    I'm in need of some help for my Native America timeline... It's getting to the point where the Old World will have to come across the Americas, and I'm wondering how Europe and the rest of the world will have developed without the Americas.

    The plot goes that calculations are correct, and no one attempts to sail west, thinking that the Atlantic and the Pacific are one huge, connected ocean. Eventually, a Spanish fleet does try making the long voyage, only to land on Barbados, an isolated island of Caribs who don't trust foreigners. They slaughter the lost sailors, so the fact that these Spaniards never return further discourages crossing the Atlantic.

    Here's a map of Europe in AD 1500:


    What will happen now? Will the Spanish and the Portuguese pay more attention to Africa? Will any other European powers try to get in on trade with the east? How will the Ottomans and the Chinese benefit from this trade? Will England and Scotland still unite? Will Muscovy still become the massive Russian Empire that it became in OTL? Or, maybe something happened earlier on that kept the age of discovery from ever sparking in the first place...
  2. Nicole Parallel Universe Imajin

    Jul 12, 2004
    Boston, MA
    Well, the Portuguese probably still have the Indian Trade...

    I think the Reconquista may be continued into North Africa, if the gold fields of Mexico aren't attracting the Conquistadors... Cortez, capturer of Algiers?
  3. pa_dutch Member

    Sep 19, 2004
    That sounds interesting. The Spanish would probably continue south toward the legendary gold of Timbuktu? Would they be able to hold their own against the expanding Ottomans, though, who I assume would have a greater role in the east-west trade as well?

    I'm thinking this wouldn't effect Russian expansion toward the east, either, which means that the Russians would also have a major advantage with access to "the Orient".
  4. Xen Banned

    Jan 1, 2004
    Republic of Appalachia
    I attempted something similiar once, my POD was the Crusades going differently with the Christian Crusaders setting up a new kingdom, the Duchy of Damascus. The Fourth Crusade then goes to Egypt in 1203, Spain is reconquered for the Christians in the early fourteenth Century, and reconquista conquers North Africa, forcing the Muslims to scrap a living off the rocks of the Sahara.

    It is the butterflies that send a group of Muslim sailors across the Atlantic where they settle in Florida. This is the beginning of the Muslim settlements in North America. The Europeans arent overly intrested as it appears the land is useless, they are more focused on the riches they are finding in North Africa and the Middle East. A group of Muslims settles along the coast of what is OTL Texas and begins converting the native tribes to Islam. Instead of conquering them, they assimiliate with them bringing new technology to the America's, as well as beasts of burden. The natives do have a small plague due to new diseases.

    Within a century we have the America's with large and powerful native caliphs, such as the Caliphate of the Comanche, and the Aztec Caliphate. There are some Christians, mostly protestants that settle along the Atlantic coast of North America, pretty much around OTL New England, and Virginia. They themselves convert some of the tribes like the Iroquois and the Cherokee to Christianity. The Christian states arent as powerful as the Muslim nations, but they do share a common peace and distrust of Europe. I even went as far as the throw in a Jewish nation founded in the Ozarks.