Of lost monkeys and broken vehicles

[Quinkana]

Tbf I wonder would we see the modern flag ittl at all. The second Hellenic Republic prob used the same flag as per otl, so it should be the same right? I wonder who'll use the otl flag tho. Maybe a political party?

I also wonder if we'd get the double headed eagle on anything. Something like the Greek air force having the double headed eagle on the flag would be fun.

 

[Xenophonte]

For the non-Greeks: The mention that trees don't vote is a direct reference to the 1961 greek election that was known as the "election of violence and fraud". George Papandreou had famously remarked that "even the trees voted".

1961 Greek legislative election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The cynic in me would also note the referendums for the return of Constantine in 1920, won with 98.97% of the vote with the number of the voters magically increasing from 750,000 in the elections to over a million three weeks later with every single one of them voting for Constantine and the referendum for the return of the monarchy in 1935 again won by 98% and the voters again magically being more than in the 1932, 1933 1935 and 1936 elections by more than a quarter million. Nevermind the 1935 election when districts that in 1933 and 1936 voted 80-90% republican somehow voted only royalists.

Remind me of ...

 

[X Oristos]

Remind me of ...

That's a very good analogy. Especially if you add a few cracked heads.

 

[Lascaris]

Tbf I wonder would we see the modern flag ittl at all. The second Hellenic Republic prob used the same flag as per otl, so it should be the same right? I wonder who'll use the otl flag tho. Maybe a political party?

I also wonder if we'd get the double headed eagle on anything. Something like the Greek air force having the double headed eagle on the flag would be fun.

Obvious difference from OTL. THIS will be remaining in widespread use.

 

[Khan Doomy]

City fight in Constantinople means no city left. It is 98% wood

 

[Samuel Von Straßburg]

Here is my (almost certainly inaccurate) prediction of post war Poland:

• Free Polish forces manage to liberate some pre-war Polish territory in the Galicia south of the Dniester river, liberating Stanislawow as the first major city to be recaptured. Thus becoming known as the Stanislawow Poles. Similarly the Soviet's and their puppet's the Lublin Poles liberate the central and northern territories.
• In the peace settlement, the administration is split north-south between the two competing governments, pending a resolution between the two. This split becomes a defacto permeant split for the duration of the cold war.
• In the east sweeping territorial concessions are made to the Soviets, with Vilnius, Brest and Tarnopol being ceded. However due to the presence of the Stanislawow Poles inside Poland, they have significantly more agency in being able to retain pre-war Polish territory in the post war settlement (Grodno, Lwow, Stanislawow and Styl). As per OTL I would expect large scale population transfers between Poland and the Soviet Union in the changing territories.
• In the west/north, Poland gains as compensation, Danzig, the entirety of East Prussia, a significant slice of Pomerania & the territory of the Upper Silesian plebiscite.
  

I look forward to seeing the actual outcome ITTL!

 

[Vaeius]

In the west/north, Poland gains as compensation, Danzig, the entirety of East Prussia, a significant slice of Pomerania & the territory of the Upper Silesian plebiscite.

I think Silesia would go to Poland ahead of Pomerania.

But a split Poland would be a pretty interesting idea, though rather heavily dependant on the wallies absolutely charging through Hungary and Romania. Maybe possible if Romania flips early and the western governments keep them out of Soviet hands.

 

[TickTock The Witch's Dead]

I feel that Poland’s not gonna be affected differently than OTL. Maybe it’s just me but it’s hard for me to imagine the borders in Poland changing here.

 

[Thoresby]

I feel that Poland’s not gonna be affected differently than OTL. Maybe it’s just me but it’s hard for me to imagine the borders in Poland changing here.

I think the one thing that might differ is Konigsberg, if Stalin is making larger than OTL territorial gains in the Caucasus' it might mean no Kaliningrad. A Polish Konigsberg might in turn lead to a slightly different Western border.

 

[TickTock The Witch's Dead]

I think the one thing that might differ is Konigsberg, if Stalin is making larger than OTL territorial gains in the Caucasus' it might mean no Kaliningrad. A Polish Konigsberg might in turn lead to a slightly different Western border.

Not sure if it’ll change the western border tbh. Poland’s getting land from Germany regardless. Also not sure why Stalin won’t get Kaliningrad. What’s stopping him there?

 

[Quinkana]

Not sure if it’ll change the western border tbh. Poland’s getting land from Germany regardless. Also not sure why Stalin won’t get Kaliningrad. What’s stopping him there?

Tbf I think it'd be decided by the boots on the ground and how far east Stalin's armies push. A east-west or North-south partition is very possible. However, if the allies get to Pomerania there is no way it'll be polish. Pomerania at this point has been majority German for centuries and only a few far right poles would've advocated for the annexation of Pomerania.

 

[TickTock The Witch's Dead]

Tbf I think it'd be decided by the boots on the ground and how far east Stalin's armies push. A east-west or North-south partition is very possible. However, if the allies get to Pomerania there is no way it'll be polish. Pomerania at this point has been majority German for centuries and only a few far right poles would've advocated for the annexation of Pomerania.

How are the WAllies doing in Germany? So far it looks more like it’ll be business as usual like OTL.

 

[Quinkana]

How are the WAllies doing in Germany? So far it looks more like it’ll be business as usual like OTL.

prob yeah. I defo could see the Germans surrendering after a successful operation valkyrie tho, which would allow the allies to move to Pomerania and the Germans to focus on the Eastern front only and for Poland to be liberated much more quickly since the Germans will not surrender to the Soviets for good reason. I wonder which Balkan nations would be of the WAllies and who won't tho. Greece and Chetnik Yugoslavia should be part of NATO, but would Bulgaria be part of NATO?

 

[TickTock The Witch's Dead]

prob yeah. I defo could see the Germans surrendering after a successful operation valkyrie tho, which would allow the allies to move to Pomerania and the Germans to focus on the Eastern front only and for Poland to be liberated much more quickly since the Germans will not surrender to the Soviets for good reason. I wonder which Balkan nations would be of the WAllies and who won't tho. Greece and Chetnik Yugoslavia should be part of NATO, but would Bulgaria be part of NATO?

Dunno. Not sure how the situation in Turkey changes the fact that the Germans were fighting to the death. Until D-Day it looked like the Germans still had a chance.

 

[Quinkana]

Dunno. Not sure how the situation in Turkey changes the fact that the Germans were fighting to the death. Until D-Day it looked like the Germans still had a chance.

considering ittl d-day should be done asap its very possible that operation valkyrie happens as the allies are getting near Germany, and the Soviets would be distracted in Turkey, considering what they want to take, which is very different from otl, even if the Turks focus on the Western Anatolian front there's the Turks know the Soviets will try to take as much of Eastern Anatolia as they can, which means the Turks will fight there to the last man too. At least the Germans know the allies won't butcher their country.

 

[Aristomenes]

How are the WAllies doing in Germany? So far it looks more like it’ll be business as usual like OTL.

The Allies have not landed yet in Normandy, we are still in1943.

 

[TickTock The Witch's Dead]

considering ittl d-day should be done asap its very possible that operation valkyrie happens as the allies are getting near Germany, and the Soviets would be distracted in Turkey, considering what they want to take, which is very different from otl, even if the Turks focus on the Western Anatolian front there's the Turks know the Soviets will try to take as much of Eastern Anatolia as they can, which means the Turks will fight there to the last man too. At least the Germans know the allies won't butcher their country.

It’s around 1943 and D-Day is next year. So I really can’t see much changing in Europe yet.

The Allies have not landed yet in Normandy, we are still in1943.

Yeah I thought so.

 

[Quinkana]

It’s around 1943 and D-Day is next year. So I really can’t see much changing in Europe yet.

yeah I agree, which is why I suggested a successful operation valkyrie making the Wallies be able to get to Germany before the Soivets.

 

[TickTock The Witch's Dead]

yeah I agree, which is why I suggested a successful operation valkyrie making the Wallies be able to get to Germany before the Soivets.

Just checked out what it was but honestly even if the coup succeeded I wouldn’t be surprised if the WAllies delivered terms that involved giving the Soviets a share in occupying Germany so it may not even matter in the end.

 

[Quinkana]

Just checked out what it was but honestly even if the coup succeeded I wouldn’t be surprised if the WAllies delivered terms that involved giving the Soviets a share in occupying Germany so it may not even matter in the end.

tbf I don't think the Soviets would be able to hold anything substantial besides something like a split berlin scenario between the Anglo-American and Soviets, and considering that the soviets won't have the air power to put food into their part of the city if the WAllies blockaded them I think Stalin would've used it for a concession.

Thing is I don't think the Soviets could get through all of Poland due to their preoccupation in Turkey. They have two major fronts to deal with instead of one and both would be headaches to the soviets because they'll fight to the last man.