Odds of the Iroquois holding out against the Europeans as an seperate state

So, I've been reading up on the history of the Iroquois and how successful they were at subjugating their neighbors and fighting the French. How plausible is it for them to have been even more successful pre-contact, to the point where they ruled most of what is now New England and were able to repel settlers and maintain internal autonomy, even if they became a sort of New World "princely state" subject to Britain?

For that matter, how plausible, if at all, is it for any of the smaller Amerinds along the east coast to hold out against the English colonists and for how long?
 

SRBO

Banned
Simply not possible. The instant Europeans set foot on the continent they are dead by disease before the europeans even arrive. The lack of horse prevents large states because walking is slow. The only way the natives can hold out is to play it smart which honestly is difficult since according to everyone native americans have a weird passive culture of not thinking forward, which is why they sold their land for stupid shit. So let's assume the Europeans are there and are colonizing the empty land. Instead of selling land to the brits/french/whoever for absolutely laughable garbage, they start conning them with stories that some useless land has a gorrilion tons of gold or whatever. Then they sell this small land for an absurd price, which is preferably horses and firearms. Repeat and sell for knowledge of metalworking and agriculture. Next thing you know they are on an almost European level and the colonizers will take the path of least resistance and annex lands that are owned by people who didn't listen to the advice

Then comes the inevitable tricking all sides into believing that they should never ever annex you and that you are a useful buffer state
 
Simply not possible. The instant Europeans set foot on the continent they are dead by disease before the europeans even arrive. The lack of horse prevents large states because walking is slow. The only way the natives can hold out is to play it smart which honestly is difficult since according to everyone native americans have a weird passive culture of not thinking forward, which is why they sold their land for stupid shit. So let's assume the Europeans are there and are colonizing the empty land. Instead of selling land to the brits/french/whoever for absolutely laughable garbage, they start conning them with stories that some useless land has a gorrilion tons of gold or whatever. Then they sell this small land for an absurd price, which is preferably horses and firearms. Repeat and sell for knowledge of metalworking and agriculture. Next thing you know they are on an almost European level and the colonizers will take the path of least resistance and annex lands that are owned by people who didn't listen to the advice

Then comes the inevitable tricking all sides into believing that they should never ever annex you and that you are a useful buffer state

I would disagree The Skulking Way of War paints the Native American during the Pequot War as really forward thinking, they adopted firearms as new technology and even developed the infrastructure parts and special training needed to make them, the only thing they couldn't get down was powder making. The native American's even used fire which was traditionally taboo as a weapon of war given its destructiveness and even the way native used guns was much superior to the settlers which basically was guerilla warfare and killing commanders in ambushes, against traditional European methods that didn't work well in the terrain of America.

The only reason why the colonists won the Pequot is that after much pressure they finally adopted the same tactics of their native allies. If there is an Iroquois state that can actually make its own powder coupled with firearms, and possibly reduce the number of hostile enemy tribes survival is possible, but that would also need to be a useful ally to whoever is colonizing and backing the right horse.
 
There were only about 10,000 Iroquois. You'd have to have them pretty much instantly adopt European farming (especially animals) and fiber crops (flax probably). Oh, and metal working, so they can make their own guns.

Then, they can, maybe grow at the same growth rate as the white settlers. Of course, they're going to be kicked down hard and repeatedly by disease.

Best case scenario, adopting the full European farming package? Probably Upstate New York from Albany to Buffalo or so.
 
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