Odd AH map.

From: David Walker (dowalke2@ncsu.edu)
Subject: Odd AH map.

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Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if
Date: 2003-12-24 03:00:04 PST

I picked up a fantasy novel recently, "Shadow of the Lion". which has a
rather interesting map for 1537. I was wondering if we might be able to
come up with a series of PODs that might yet create this world. Some parts
may be impossible to do

Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Cornwall, and Brittany are united in the 'League
of Armagh'

Norway and Sweden are united as 'Norseland'

Iceland is nominally part of Norseland, but is defacto independent, and
maintains contact with Vinland, which still exists on the coast of OTL
Maine. (Vinland trade with the Iroquois is mentioned)

England, less the parts mentioned above, and Western France except Brittany
are 'Aquitane', with the Seine and Rhone as the approximate borders.

The Iberian pennensula is united as Spain

Northern Italy is the same conglomerate of City-states as OTL's 1400s, but
this extends throughout italy. (No kingdom of the two Sicilies, for

The Holy Roman Empire stretches from the Seine and Rhone to the lower
Vistula, and Denmark to Trieste. It is also genuinely united, with the
Hohenstauffens as Emperor, not the Hapsburgs.

Hungary stretches from the Adriatic to the Don, with the Danube as its
southern border about where Roman Dacia started.

The Grand Duchy of Poland and Lithuania runs from the Vistula past the
Dneiper, including Vilna, Warsaw, and Kiev, and reaches from Gdansk/Danzig
to the Crimea.

Where the modern Baltic States are (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania), is
territory still controlled by the Teutonic Knights.

Muscovy controls the rest of northern Russia and Finland, while Mongol
Khanates control southern Russia

The Balkans are not described on the map, but probably belong to the

Opinions on if this is a viable map circa 1500-1550?

I see a few possible PODs: The english win the 100 years war, but Brittany,
Wales and Cornwall break off, with all the Celtic-related groups formind a
confederation. How this succeeds, I don't know

The Popes lose their control to the Emperors (there is no 'Papal states' on
the map), and the Hohenstauffens keep control, alowing a *very* powerul
united Empire.

Also what does the rest of the world look like at this time? In 1900? 2004?-MEJ


I see a very early POD in the first one, possibly early 6thc with Arthur as a charismatic and much more solid historical figure who united the Britanic Celts into a military and cultural whole. Armagh, then is a more celtic Albion

In Norseland, Vinland is the unifying factor here as otherwise this is very similar to OTL in medieval times w/o Vinland. POD is around 1300 when the Little Ice Age doesnt happen\

France must have lost the Hundred Years War, the Maid of Orleans might never have existed

Possible link here between a greater Viking influence in the North Atlantic in the 1400's and the stifling of Portugal's brief period of glory as a center ot the Spice Trade leading to an earlier Spanish/Portugeuse Union

I think the lack of city states in South Italy and Sicily reflected a lack of urbanisation due to geography and historic factors, however I will leave this and the rest of the map to those who know.

As for what the rest of the world looks like I wonder if the Vikings have replaced the Portuguese in Africa. If this is so it reflects a somewhat earlier and more Northern nation based Age of Exploration. Did Armagh and Aquitaine participate or did their Continental interests prevail?