Octavian marries Antonia the elder; Julio-Antonian Dynasty

Urcea

Suppose that Octavian ends up marrying Antonia, the elder daughter of Marc Antony. This can either be a term for re-committing the Second Triumvirate, after the defeat of Antony, or whenever you like.

Supposing things go largely the same, Octavian becomes master of Rome and remains married to her rather than marrying Livia, what are the effects? I anticipate it may give Augustus a better shot at having a biological son given Antonia being 8 years younger than Livia, and it seems like there were a ton of Antonians hanging around.

What are the lasting effects, if any, of the Julii linking up with the Antonians rather than the Claudians?
 
Sertorius126

Sertorius126

Doubtful such a marriage would have gone through, Antonia was 24 years younger than Augustus, in case he were to divorce Livia, he’d certainly find a woman closer to his age he could get pregnant.
 

Urcea

Sertorius126 said:
Doubtful such a marriage would have gone through, Antonia was 24 years younger than Augustus, in case he were to divorce Livia, he’d certainly find a woman closer to his age he could get pregnant.
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This Antonia was born in 50 bc, only 13 years after Octavian
 
AntoniousTheBro

AntoniousTheBro

Sertorius126 said:
Oh, you mean that one. Well, Octavianus would have divorced her as soon as the alliance with Antonius broke.
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could he not keep married as a political move to show unity and portray him as more honourable somebody who keeps too his promises a true roman unlike Antony. He could also portray himself as Antony's rightful heir before he went "native" to say that if he had not been corrupted then this was surely the path too be taken with the two families joined i could see Augustus doing this, separate Antony into two persona's one that was roman one that was not the roman one was loved so by claiming he destroyed the traitor Antony and through his daughter he is the roman Antony.
 
AntoniousTheBro

AntoniousTheBro

and if he does stay married then i could see especially if he had kids with Antonia then we could see a much more dynastic oriented empire, it would also butterfly the crazy Claudius family. it also helps establish a bit more of a legacy for them too follow
 
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Sertorius126

Sertorius126

AntoniousTheBro said:
could he not keep married as a political move to show unity and portray him as more honourable somebody who keeps too his promises a true roman unlike Antony. He could also portray himself as Antony's rightful heir before he went "native" to say that if he had not been corrupted then this was surely the path too be taken with the two families joined i could see Augustus doing this, separate Antony into two persona's one that was roman one that was not the roman one was loved so by claiming he destroyed the traitor Antony and through his daughter he is the roman Antony.
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Augustus didn’t need to be seen as Antonius’ heir, he already was Caesar’s heir, and by the time Antonia could safely bear children, Augustus would have already decided that having Octavia marry Antonius wouldn’t bind his ambitions as much as marrying his daughter. What you say Augustus could do with her, portray himself as a true Roman, married to a true Roman matron, while giving the impression that Antonius went native, that’s exaclty what he did IOTL, no need to involve Antonia Prima for that to happen.
 
AntoniousTheBro

AntoniousTheBro

Sertorius126 said:
Augustus didn’t need to be seen as Antonius’ heir, he already was Caesar’s heir, and by the time Antonia could safely bear children, Augustus would have already decided that having Octavia marry Antonius wouldn’t bind his ambitions as much as marrying his daughter. What you say Augustus could do with her, portray himself as a true Roman, married to a true Roman matron, while giving the impression that Antonius went native, that’s exaclty what he did IOTL, no need to involve Antonia Prima for that to happen.
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i should of articulated this better but i meant it as more of a move too make a truly unshockable portrait. Though he did not need too do so i can only imagine the effect that it would have if done it would help drown out the lack of militarism that was associated with him and he constantly was trying to quash or as a fuck you to Antony take your pick. i do know that Antony was portrayed as native but that wasn't really my point was what if he had put more into making them into a distinct identity as if they were two completely different people. other than that i completely agree
my main point wasn't really associated with need rather what if he decided to take this route to really cut off possibility
 

Matteo

Spelf said:
Suppose that Octavian ends up marrying Antonia, the elder daughter of Marc Antony. This can either be a term for re-committing the Second Triumvirate, after the defeat of Antony, or whenever you like.

Supposing things go largely the same, Octavian becomes master of Rome and remains married to her rather than marrying Livia, what are the effects? I anticipate it may give Augustus a better shot at having a biological son given Antonia being 8 years younger than Livia, and it seems like there were a ton of Antonians hanging around.

What are the lasting effects, if any, of the Julii linking up with the Antonians rather than the Claudians?
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But the Julian-Claudian dynasty already was a half Antonian dynasty !

Just look on the female side of the dynasty.

Anthony had 2 daughters with Octavia minor, Augustus’ only full sister : Antonia maior and Antonia minor.

Antonia maior married Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus and was the ancestor of emperor Nero.

Antonia minor married Drusus, second son of Livia by her first husband, and was the mother of Germanicus (and grandmother of Caligula) and emperor Claudius.
 

Darth_Kiryan

Spelf said:
Suppose that Octavian ends up marrying Antonia, the elder daughter of Marc Antony. This can either be a term for re-committing the Second Triumvirate, after the defeat of Antony, or whenever you like.

Supposing things go largely the same, Octavian becomes master of Rome and remains married to her rather than marrying Livia, what are the effects? I anticipate it may give Augustus a better shot at having a biological son given Antonia being 8 years younger than Livia, and it seems like there were a ton of Antonians hanging around.

What are the lasting effects, if any, of the Julii linking up with the Antonians rather than the Claudians?
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Marrying her instead of Scribonia/Clodia, or marrying her instead of Livia?

In all honesty I am really surprised Octavian didn't even try to get a son off of Livia anyway....
 
Sertorius126

Sertorius126

Darth_Kiryan said:
Marrying her instead of Scribonia/Clodia, or marrying her instead of Livia?

In all honesty I am really surprised Octavian didn't even try to get a son off of Livia anyway....
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They tried, she lost the child, so I believe she and Augustus decided it wasn’t worth risking her life over again.
 
Sertorius126

Sertorius126

Darth_Kiryan said:
Makes me wonder if most Octavian/Augustus biographies skip over it. I mean, I have 2-3 here, but I can't for the life of me remember reading anything about Livia having a miscarriage...
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As I recall, Adrian Goldsworthy mentions it too, amongst the modern sources. It’s even in Livia’s wikipedia article.
 

isabella

Spelf said:
Suppose that Octavian ends up marrying Antonia, the elder daughter of Marc Antony. This can either be a term for re-committing the Second Triumvirate, after the defeat of Antony, or whenever you like.

Supposing things go largely the same, Octavian becomes master of Rome and remains married to her rather than marrying Livia, what are the effects? I anticipate it may give Augustus a better shot at having a biological son given Antonia being 8 years younger than Livia, and it seems like there were a ton of Antonians hanging around.

What are the lasting effects, if any, of the Julii linking up with the Antonians rather than the Claudians?
Click to expand...
The timing is wrong as Antonia was too young for marry when Octavian married Clodia in her place and at the renewal of the Triumvirate Octavian was already married for political reasons and Antony just widowed (and Antonia likely engaged to Lepidus’ son). Maybe if Fulvia and/or Marcellus survived butterflying a wedding between Antony and Octavia a later wedding between Octavian and this Antonia will be possible. OTL with his sister already married with Antony, Octavian had zero reason for marrying Antonia and Livia was a much better match and alliance
 
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