Obsidian Bullets?

I was wondering, as obsidian is incredibly sharp, and I have heard the the obsidian arrows used by the Aztec pierced Conquistador armour, I was wondering if bullets made from it would be plausible, and also if they would be armour piercing in any way.
 
Remotely plausible, but in almost no way effective. The only bullet that could be made from obsidian would be one for a smoothbore gun, or a sub-caliber projectile (think shot or canister). Rifle bullets require a degree of compressibility to fit the grooves, and obsidian is practically incompressible. Trying to fire it through a rifle will, depending on the specifics of the situation, either fragment your bullet, explode your gun, or deform your barrel enough for the blast to vent.

The other problen is that obsidian is brittle, hard and sharp. Shaping it is possible, but shaping it into either a smooth ball or conical cylinder is going to be extremely laboorious. With modern power tools, any skilled machinist or stonemason can do it, of course, but when all you have is rocks, sand, and bone or antler tools, it will be a sisyphean task even with a primitive lathe or ball mill.

Now you have your obsidian ball and musket to fire it from, you get problem three. Obsidian is considerably lighter than lead, and hold less kinetic energy. Its armour-penetrating qualities will thus be limited. Against any organic armours (fabric, leather, wood), a lead bullet is likely to fare as well anway, since the difference in hardness is not that great. Against a metal armour, the chance is good that an obsidian bullet will shatter (remember - brittle). If it doesn't, it will likely do more damage than a lead one of equal weight and velocity, but I doubt the tradeoff is worth it.
 
The other problen is that obsidian is brittle, hard and sharp. Shaping it is possible, but shaping it into either a smooth ball or conical cylinder is going to be extremely laboorious. With modern power tools, any skilled machinist or stonemason can do it, of course, but when all you have is rocks, sand, and bone or antler tools, it will be a sisyphean task even with a primitive lathe or ball mill.

I put this in before 1900 because I was thinking about it in the 1800s, put the early 1900s work to. Sorry, I should have said. :eek:
 
The very thing that made obsidian arrowheads and shards so sharp is what makes it totally unsuitable for bullets: it is extremely brittle. That means you can easily split it into sharp fragments, but there is no way to machine it into a bullet. Try working on it on a lathe and it will come flying away in a shower of splinters ...

Anyway, what you need for an armor-piercing projectile is dense, rather ductile material, not just something hard - otherwise we'd be using sintered ceramic bullets.

Edit: of course, sanding a piece of obsidian down into a bullet shape might be possible, but I don't want to guess about how long that would take ...
 
The very thing that made obsidian arrowheads and shards so sharp is what makes it totally unsuitable for bullets: it is extremely brittle. That means you can easily split it into sharp fragments, but there is no way to machine it into a bullet. Try working on it on a lathe and it will come flying away in a shower of splinters ...

Anyway, what you need for an armor-piercing projectile is dense, rather ductile material, not just something hard - otherwise we'd be using sintered ceramic bullets.

Could you make something that sprays shards like some sort of shotgun?
 
I guess you could just pack a bunch of splinters into some sort of paper cartridge and try firing it, but you might end up with something closer to sand than flechettes coming out of the muzzle. :D

I don't think they'd stand the shock of firing very well - especially since in the timeframe you were thinking of, all you have as propellant is fast-burning, volatile gunpowder.
 
No. As others have said, obsidian is glass and is extremely brittle. Also, there is no way obsidian (or any flint/chert like stone) could be easily shaped into a standardized ball or bullet shape. As has been mentioned, one could pack obsidian or flint chips into a muzzle loader as a very short range shotgun, but at that point virtually anything (fractured gravel, broken pottery, etc) would work as well. Finally, as has also been noted, even if one could make an obsidian projectile that you could shoot from a gun without it shattering, it would have less penetrating power than a metal slug and would almost certainly shatter against the most flimsy protection. If infact Aztec obsidian tipped atlatl darts pierced spanish steel armor, it is almost certainly due to the weight of the shaft, the force behind it,and luck that the projectile point did not immediately shatter, not the type of lithic material used used on the point.
 
For the reasons given above obsidian is not really suitable for anything other than arrowheads or edged weapons; it is too brittle and light to make an effective bullet. Aztecs and other cultures made edged weapons with it, and with the macahuitl and similar weapons even allowed for breakage; just take the broken piece out and stick in a new one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macuahuitl

Obsidian is actually more useful for making tools; a fresh obsidian edge is sharp enough to shave with, as I can attest from personal experience. Obsidian knives, awls, razors, drills, and other tools were commonly used by Mesoamerican cultures.

For those who suggest firing obsidian shards from shotguns, that will work, but only at very short ranges; obsidian is too light to carry any distance. It's also going to tear up the barrel of your shotgun as well, so be advised.
 
I put this in before 1900 because I was thinking about it in the 1800s, put the early 1900s work to. Sorry, I should have said. :eek:

With that level of technology, metallurgy gives you far better options. Jacket a lead bullet in brass or insert a steel rod in it, or produce a harder lead alloy. Or, for that matter, build a bigger gun. AFAIR a Sharps .50 or Holland & Holland .60 was the answer to any armour a human being would be physically capable of wearing.
 

Thande

Donor
Could it work as blunderbuss or grapeshot ammunition, where you don't need size standardisation and fragmentation is actually a good thing?
 
With that level of technology, metallurgy gives you far better options. Jacket a lead bullet in brass or insert a steel rod in it, or produce a harder lead alloy. Or, for that matter, build a bigger gun. AFAIR a Sharps .50 or Holland & Holland .60 was the answer to any armour a human being would be physically capable of wearing.

Okay. It was mostly just that I had a strong Mexico which was sort of Aztec fanboys (minus the human sacrifice).
 
Okay. It was mostly just that I had a strong Mexico which was sort of Aztec fanboys (minus the human sacrifice).

A cultural, religious or supernatural justification always works. Silver bullets are bad for guns and ridiculously expensive, and putting garlic oil inside 9mm handgun ammo is fiendishly difficult, but both can be done. If someone wants it enough, sure, it can be done.
 
I guess you could sling-shot it? Most early guns didn't have much range or accuracy, so a barrage of sling-shotted obsidian landing in the middle of you would probably be as effective as a round of musket fire

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Just loading a big chunk into a canon and firing?

Chunks big enough to use as cannonballs are pretty rare, and the obsidian is too valuable to use in that manner. If you're not going to use metal, then granite is the normal choice; it's heavy and durable, unlike obsidian.

Thande; said:
Could it work as blunderbuss or grapeshot ammunition, where you don't need size standardisation and fragmentation is actually a good thing?

Blunderbuss, yes; grapeshot, yes. Two drawbacks; it's light, so won't carry very far, and those jagged shards will gouge the hell out of your gun barrel, reducing accuracy drastically.
 

Nietzsche

Banned
I guess you could sling-shot it? Most early guns didn't have much range or accuracy, so a barrage of sling-shotted obsidian landing in the middle of you would probably be as effective as a round of musket fire

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

That would be a hilarious thing to watch. All those guys trying to pull back on the string, that stupidly-sharp piece of glass turning their fingers into confetti..

The enemy may very well die of laughter.
 
That would be a hilarious thing to watch. All those guys trying to pull back on the string, that stupidly-sharp piece of glass turning their fingers into confetti..

The enemy may very well die of laughter.
I have a box of obsidian flakes sitting on my desk and while they are sharp, you can easily chip the edge off one side so you can hold it and still have it sharp enough to cut.
 
an explosion strong enough to propel obsidian will almost certainly shatter it, its called volcanic glass for a reason.
like everyone said its brittle, but can be exceedingly sharp. your best bet is to use it on a slower projectile (arrow head) or even to mount it on a hardwood bolt (if one could imagine aztec bolt launchers like the romano/greek design). but even then the head would shatter if it struck metal, would cause some pretty serious flesh wounds though (horses as targets?).
as for the person who rebuked the slingshot idea, you probably have the image of a bart simpson style sling shot, not a david and goliath style, which wouldnt shred your fingers.
as for knowing the explosion destroys obsidian, personal experience, i live in an area where it can be found quite easily, and actually tried it out.
 
Top