Nudity in Western Culture

I don't know about west but in India, nudity is acceptable in past time before Muslim invader, whore or the respectable word in Sanskrit Nagarvadhu(wife of the city ) had a position in City Council and king courts and some time their power eclipse the king power, Many time Nagarvadhu were prime reason for war and peace between kingdoms of India. Also at 500 AC saint Vatsyayana already wrote Kamasutra book on sex .
Even after the Islamic invasions attitudes persisted for a very long time- Tipu Sultan passed a special tax on lower caste women if they wanted to wear bras, and in Bengal the English felt obliged to make sure women wore bras because so few did in the nineteenth century.
 

Dolan

Banned
Child Nudity was historically used as the sign of innocence. Until Pedophiles ruined that for everyone.

Social Nudity within the same gender was historically used as the sign of openness and honesty too. But usually, women are expected to cover their lower genitals at least.
 
I’m not sure how this has anything to do with the subject. Lol

Once upon a time, until at least my parents’ childhood, social nudity was considered more normal in the West. Today, it is almost exclusively unacceptable, especially in the United States, where even the briefest momentary nudity in the locker room is increasingly viewed as strange and uncomfortable. Something has changed, but the change seems to have been slow and incremental, and so I am wondering if anyone can tell me exactly what they think it is, or if there are multiple factors at play.
It's interesting that American attitudes towards public nudity have become more prudish while we became less religious, I find that counterintuitive.
 
It's interesting that American attitudes towards public nudity have become more prudish while we became less religious, I find that counterintuitive.
It is maybe counterintuitive but I wonder if there isn't a connection rather than a disconnection.

In so far as secularization is connected to sexual liberation/revolution, that is. Maybe we have hard time seeing nudity in non-sexual way because of sexual liberation rather than despite of it.

Although there has probably always been some kinds of erotic/pornographic materials and talking and writing about sex, prostitution etc. , it nevertheless seems there was less of it and it was less public (although it varies over time and place). In addition sex itself was to a significant extend (although obviously not wholly) contained to marriage and for both religious/cultural/ideological and biological reasons strongly connected to preproduction.

Maybe all those restrictions and repressions created a conceptual space were nudity, which probably is always at least potentially erotic, could be seen as non-erotic. At least in some contexts.

Now we live in a different world. Not only is there all kinds of erotic and pornographic material widely available, in many mediums, some of them as a part of public sphere. Sex is also discussed very openly and publicly. Religious/cultural/ideological restrictions on sexuality have weakened as we have become more secular and medical technology has changed biological reality, unchaining sexual act from reproduction and making sex itself more of an erotic thing than it was before.

Basically I'm claiming that our culture is more eroticized than before and hence we are more likely to see potentially erotic things as erotic and probably see more things as potentially erotic.


Hopefully that made some kind of sense. It could also be utter bullshit but I think I'm on to something.
 
It is maybe counterintuitive but I wonder if there isn't a connection rather than a disconnection.

In so far as secularization is connected to sexual liberation/revolution, that is. Maybe we have hard time seeing nudity in non-sexual way because of sexual liberation rather than despite of it.

Although there has probably always been some kinds of erotic/pornographic materials and talking and writing about sex, prostitution etc. , it nevertheless seems there was less of it and it was less public (although it varies over time and place). In addition sex itself was to a significant extend (although obviously not wholly) contained to marriage and for both religious/cultural/ideological and biological reasons strongly connected to preproduction.

Maybe all those restrictions and repressions created a conceptual space were nudity, which probably is always at least potentially erotic, could be seen as non-erotic. At least in some contexts.

Now we live in a different world. Not only is there all kinds of erotic and pornographic material widely available, in many mediums, some of them as a part of public sphere. Sex is also discussed very openly and publicly. Religious/cultural/ideological restrictions on sexuality have weakened as we have become more secular and medical technology has changed biological reality, unchaining sexual act from reproduction and making sex itself more of an erotic thing than it was before.

Basically I'm claiming that our culture is more eroticized than before and hence we are more likely to see potentially erotic things as erotic and probably see more things as potentially erotic.


Hopefully that made some kind of sense. It could also be utter bullshit but I think I'm on to something.
I think you're on to something. I thought something similar, perhaps we've become more sensitive to privacy in general, and nudity in particular because we live in such a hypersexualized culture (and have for at least half a century), and thus any genitalia showing is immediately associated with sex, rather than, say, marble statues and renaissance paintings.
 
It is maybe counterintuitive but I wonder if there isn't a connection rather than a disconnection.

In so far as secularization is connected to sexual liberation/revolution, that is. Maybe we have hard time seeing nudity in non-sexual way because of sexual liberation rather than despite of it.

Although there has probably always been some kinds of erotic/pornographic materials and talking and writing about sex, prostitution etc. , it nevertheless seems there was less of it and it was less public (although it varies over time and place). In addition sex itself was to a significant extend (although obviously not wholly) contained to marriage and for both religious/cultural/ideological and biological reasons strongly connected to preproduction.

Maybe all those restrictions and repressions created a conceptual space were nudity, which probably is always at least potentially erotic, could be seen as non-erotic. At least in some contexts.

Now we live in a different world. Not only is there all kinds of erotic and pornographic material widely available, in many mediums, some of them as a part of public sphere. Sex is also discussed very openly and publicly. Religious/cultural/ideological restrictions on sexuality have weakened as we have become more secular and medical technology has changed biological reality, unchaining sexual act from reproduction and making sex itself more of an erotic thing than it was before.

Basically I'm claiming that our culture is more eroticized than before and hence we are more likely to see potentially erotic things as erotic and probably see more things as potentially erotic.


Hopefully that made some kind of sense. It could also be utter bullshit but I think I'm on to something.

I like your theory and think there very well may be something to it, but I subscribe to the “cookie jar” theory of sexualised nudity. I believe nudity is eroticised in western culture (particularly the States) precisely because it is so rare. If your only exposure (pun intended) to nudity is of a sexual nature (i.e. in porn or R-rated movies) you will only associate nudity with sex. If, however, you’ve grown up seeing grandma and grandpa bathing down at the watering hole every Saturday a little skin by itself is unlikely to do it for you.

My personal experience is that I grew up relatively prudish in the States, but have discovered the joys of sauna since moving to Germany. I got over my ingrained prudishness pretty quickly, but I do still have some reservations (I wouldn’t want to go with my wife, for example, though I don’t mind her going with her friends). A lot of the Germans I’ve talked to about sauna have their reservations as well. Some ladies will only go on “ladies day” to avoid, and this is a direct quote, “seeing more sausage than in a butchers window”. Also, there seems to be an age window between the onset of puberty and about 40 where people are horrified at the thought of sauna. Just thought I’d share what I’ve observed.
 
I like your theory and think there very well may be something to it, but I subscribe to the “cookie jar” theory of sexualised nudity. I believe nudity is eroticised in western culture (particularly the States) precisely because it is so rare. If your only exposure (pun intended) to nudity is of a sexual nature (i.e. in porn or R-rated movies) you will only associate nudity with sex. If, however, you’ve grown up seeing grandma and grandpa bathing down at the watering hole every Saturday a little skin by itself is unlikely to do it for you.

My personal experience is that I grew up relatively prudish in the States, but have discovered the joys of sauna since moving to Germany. I got over my ingrained prudishness pretty quickly, but I do still have some reservations (I wouldn’t want to go with my wife, for example, though I don’t mind her going with her friends). A lot of the Germans I’ve talked to about sauna have their reservations as well. Some ladies will only go on “ladies day” to avoid, and this is a direct quote, “seeing more sausage than in a butchers window”. Also, there seems to be an age window between the onset of puberty and about 40 where people are horrified at the thought of sauna. Just thought I’d share what I’ve observed.
There is obviously a differences between, say, different western cultures in how people relate to nudity. Personally, as a someone who has always lived in Finland, I find the American situation (which I only know from tv/internet etc.) rather extreme. Those differences clearly have to do with what people are used to.

However, that doesn't explain the change within a particular western nation. Just based on this thread alone, there have been significant changes in American attitudes to public nudity during last hundred years.

Question is: Why?
 
There is obviously a differences between, say, different western cultures in how people relate to nudity. Personally, as a someone who has always lived in Finland, I find the American situation (which I only know from tv/internet etc.) rather extreme. Those differences clearly have to do with what people are used to.

However, that doesn't explain the change within a particular western nation. Just based on this thread alone, there have been significant changes in American attitudes to public nudity during last hundred years.

Question is: Why?

I think the timeframe (approximately 100 years ago) is significant. It coincides with the height of the temperance movement in the US. The turn of the 20th century was a time of great upheaval in the US as the expansionists ran out of continent and the wild west was civilising, industrialisation was sweeping the nation and remaking societies and Americans were increasingly influencing and being influenced by the Old World. Temperance, modesty and isolationism were part of a general reactionary lurch towards conservatism that they’ve never fully recovered from.

Of course, that’s all just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.

Also, go Rauma Lukko!
 
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I think the timeframe (approximately 100 years ago) is significant. It coincides with the height of the temperance movement in the US. The turn of the 20th century was a time of great upheaval in the US as the expansionists ran out of continent and the wild west was civilising, industrialisation was sweeping the nation and remaking societies and Americans were increasingly influencing and being influenced by the Old World. Temperance, modesty and isolationism were part of a general reactionary lurch towards conservatism that they’ve never fully recovered from.
I think we have rather different views of the current situation. I think that we're living in a highly eroticized culture, where, somewhat counter-intuitively, the conceptual space for thinking about nudity has gotten narrower rather than wider. I think we are more open about sex and because of that less able to think about things in a non sexual manner.

If I have understood you correctly, that's almost direct opposite of what you think has happened.

Of course, that’s all just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.
No worries. This is really the first time I've written down my thoughts about this subject so to some extent I'm just thinking aloud.

Also, go Rauma Lukko!
Bah! TPS all the way!

In all honesty, I don't care about hockey that much.
 
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