Nubian Christian kingdoms survive

It doesn't really matter what the POD is, maybe the Crusaders conquer Egypt, maybe the Fatimids don't decline or maybe the Makurian rulers simply decide not to raid Egypt.
So, regardless of the POD, what if the Nubian Christian kingdoms of Makuria and Alodia survived? How would their continued existence affect the region? Would they have friendly relations with Portugal, in the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries, like Ethiopia did? Could they escape colonization, like Ethiopia did?
 
Last edited:
It doesn't really matter what the POD is, maybe the Crusaders conquer Egypt, maybe the Fatimids don't decline or maybe the Makurian rulers simply decide not to raid Egypt.
So, regardless of the POD, what if the Nubian Christian kingdoms of Makuria and Alodia survived? How would their continues existentence affect the region? Would they have friendly relations with Portugal, in the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries, like Ethiopia did? Could they escape colonization, like Ethiopia did?

Hard to tell without knowing the POD, especially as the ones you propose involve huge change in Egypt which in turn impacts Europe quite significantly and early on. I mean, if you begin tinkering with the Fatimids, you cannot even be sure there would be a Portugal for the Alodians to be friendly with by the 15th century.
Likewise, if the Crusaders permanently conquer Egypt (no matter how unlikely this is in itself) the entire initial drive for the Iberian Age of Exploration may go away entirely. Perhaps it is a completely different society that first manages to use the Cape route.
Assuming minimal changes outside the Nile Vallery, however, I'd say that:
1) the Nubian states will likely have decent relations with other Christian powers if they can. However, it is unlikely to amount to much as a simple matter of how far removed they are from anywhere European Christians can project power into in pre-industrial times.
2) if Egypt is colonised, Nubia is going to risk the same. If Egypt is not colonised, Europeans are likely to leave Nubia alone (though Egyptians may not).
Also note that, strictly speaking, Ethopia was not able to escape colonization historically.
 
Probably not, since the problem with the Nubian kingdoms is once the 15th and 16th centuries hit, massive migrations from the Funj and other groups from the south began to invade that area, and were historically the reason for the destruction of such kingdoms. You need a way to avoid that as well as Arab migrations from Egypt, Yemen and Saudia. And frankly, I just don't think the Nubian states were up to that challenge, fragile as they were.
 
Hard to tell without knowing the POD, especially as the ones you propose involve huge change in Egypt which in turn impacts Europe quite significantly and early on. I mean, if you begin tinkering with the Fatimids, you cannot even be sure there would be a Portugal for the Alodians to be friendly with by the 15th century.
Likewise, if the Crusaders permanently conquer Egypt (no matter how unlikely this is in itself) the entire initial drive for the Iberian Age of Exploration may go away entirely. Perhaps it is a completely different society that first manages to use the Cape route.
Assuming minimal changes outside the Nile Vallery, however, I'd say that:
1) the Nubian states will likely have decent relations with other Christian powers if they can. However, it is unlikely to amount to much as a simple matter of how far removed they are from anywhere European Christians can project power into in pre-industrial times.
2) if Egypt is colonised, Nubia is going to risk the same. If Egypt is not colonised, Europeans are likely to leave Nubia alone (though Egyptians may not).
Also note that, strictly speaking, Ethopia was not able to escape colonization historically.

Probably not, since the problem with the Nubian kingdoms is once the 15th and 16th centuries hit, massive migrations from the Funj and other groups from the south began to invade that area, and were historically the reason for the destruction of such kingdoms. You need a way to avoid that as well as Arab migrations from Egypt, Yemen and Saudia. And frankly, I just don't think the Nubian states were up to that challenge, fragile as they were.

Ok, let's make the POD a small one, based on https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...s-never-conquered-nubia.441630/#post-16878563, when the Fatimid Caliphate desintegrated, the Makurians raided Upper Egypt, which caused an Egyptian counter-attack against Makuria, which caused Makuria to become poorer and decline, leading to its absorption by the Muslims.
So, the POD is that the Makurians rulers decide not to raid Egypt, thus not provoking Egypt.
What happens, then?
The Nubians were strong enough to repeal the Muslim invasions of the 7th century.
 
Top