"Novi avion" vs NATO
- Thread starter NIK PARMEN
- Start date
The Yugoslav SAMs were of high enough quality to pose a significant threat to NATO forces. The NATO air assets in the theatre were predominantly close air support as there was no air to air threat. If the Novi Avion existed, I suspect NATO would have added several US F-15s or Italian Tornado ADVs to the theatre (Whilst the maneuverability of the Tornado is questionable, the quality of its air intercept missiles are not). The combination of F-15s and AWACS would ensure that all Novi Avions that took off would be destroyed by beyond visual range weapons before their weapons could engage. That's if they and their runways were not destroyed on the ground.
I'm all for nations developing their own indigenous defensive capabilities as it keeps the US on their toes. However, any thinking that there is a nation in the world that could do anything but capitulate to the USA is wishful thinking!!
p.s. the F-117 is 1960s/1970s technology deigned to be a 'low observable' not invisible aircraft. The USAF flies it's (slow and unmaneuverable) low observable aircraft in very specific mission profiles to avoid detection or engagement. Shooting down an F-117 does not suddenly mean you have a technological or military advantage over the USA!!!
I'm all for nations developing their own indigenous defensive capabilities as it keeps the US on their toes. However, any thinking that there is a nation in the world that could do anything but capitulate to the USA is wishful thinking!!
p.s. the F-117 is 1960s/1970s technology deigned to be a 'low observable' not invisible aircraft. The USAF flies it's (slow and unmaneuverable) low observable aircraft in very specific mission profiles to avoid detection or engagement. Shooting down an F-117 does not suddenly mean you have a technological or military advantage over the USA!!!
NIK PARMEN
Banned
The serbs had many underground facilities to protect their planes. A similar examples are the Iranian F-14s during the Iran - Iraq war (I am not sure but I think that the Iranians produced a fighter aircraft similar to F-5 or F-18 in design) or the 24 SU-30 plus 21 F-16 of Venezuela.
Great - they taxi out of the underground bunkers and where are the runways to take off from?
I do appreciate your support for the Novi Avion. Being British, I am very passionate about the capabilities of the Typhoon, but if I think it comes close to an F/A-23, I'm living in cloud cookoo land!!
I do appreciate your support for the Novi Avion. Being British, I am very passionate about the capabilities of the Typhoon, but if I think it comes close to an F/A-23, I'm living in cloud cookoo land!!
Great - they taxi out of the underground bunkers and where are the runways to take off from?
I do appreciate your support for the Novi Avion. Being British, I am very passionate about the capabilities of the Typhoon, but if I think it comes close to an F/A-23, I'm living in cloud cookoo land!!
I do appreciate your support for the Novi Avion. Being British, I am very passionate about the capabilities of the Typhoon, but if I think it comes close to an F/A-23, I'm living in cloud cookoo land!!
NIK PARMEN
Banned
Look I believe that any that any plane can be shot down even F-22. Remember F-117 the Americans before 1999 made movies presenting as a super weapon. The same happens nowdays with F-22
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ_vwXwf5uA&feature=PlayList&p=C64EF560BD1327E9&index=0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ_vwXwf5uA&feature=PlayList&p=C64EF560BD1327E9&index=0
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NIK PARMEN
Banned
It was cancelled due to the war and the sanctions the day that was cancelled the prototype has manifactured by 70%
You are correct, any aircraft can be shot down.
The F-117 had already been announced as being headed for retirement before the loss over Kosovo. The Serbians did well to take it down, but they were aided by the fact that the mission profile had been flown through the same flight corridor several days in a row.
This being said, the idea that 30-40 aircraft would present anything but a series of targets to a 1,000 plane NATO effort is just simply silly. The aircraft would not have been significantly superior to the MiG-29, nor would the pilots who flew the MiGs become more skilled in a Serb-built aircraft, and the Fulcrums were very roughly handled by the NATO forces.
Excepting a 5th Generation Stealth fighter (which today means the F-22) vs a non stealth fighter in BVR, when other rules apply in the engagement, the Fighter v. Fighter quality is a factor but far from the most important. Pilot quality is an even greater factor in any fight, proper airborne command and control is still more important, but numbers matter most of all. A pair of F-15C vs. eight MiG-29s (assuming the pilots of the MiGs are reasonablly skilled) is a bad situation for the Eagle drivers, even though a F-15C will, in a one-on-one fight on paper mop the Fulcrum up without any problem.
Something you might want to consider.
MacCaulay
Banned
Yes, the Iranians produced a twin-engine knockoff of the F-5 Tiger II.
The Serbs managed to keep a fair amount of their MiG-21 and MiG-29s safe from air strikes through the use of inventive decoys made of plywood with artificial heat sources by the "exhausts".
But decoys don't kill aircraft. Actual planes do.
Honestly, I think in the context of the 1990s (breakup of Yugoslavia), it'd have been impossible to finish the project due to lack of resources. It's only natural that the project was cancelled in 1991. I'm certain that a unified Yugoslavia could have proceeded with the project. However, the obvious catch is that a unified surviving Yugoslavia obviously butterflies away the 1999 Kosovo War... 
'cause it's a Serbian version of the Arrow (TSR2, etc)?Why are you so fixated at this plane?
MacCaulay
Banned
'cause it's a Serbian version of the Arrow (TSR2, etc)?
Exactly.
As much as I disagree with PARMEN on it's effect on the airwar, or even on his grossly over inflated killcount for Serbian SAMs, there is always the whole "girl that got away" thing with aircraft that never quite made it, or were stillborn.
And while we underestimate the combat effectiveness, Yugoslavia also managed to make some fairly good strides in export of it's homegrown combat systems: Indonesia uses Yugoslavian ships, and the Indian Kaveri engine on the LCA was developed with Yugoslav and Egyptian help.
There's nothing to say that this thing even getting into the sky and flying against NATO might not make India or some other country with a bunch of money and even more pride decide to bankroll getting the project going again. Yes, it probably wouldn't have downed a NATO plane, but neither has the MiG-29 Fulcrum, and look at the incredible sales it's gotten just by taking to the sky against Western aircraft (over Serbia of all places) and getting shot down.
But it makes such a nice piece of wreckage!
If you squinty up your eyes you can even pretend the dead MiG is actually a F-15 and feel better about your country getting manhandled by the most powerful Alliance on Earth.
Please, enough with this. "Novi Avion" was ... not even a napkinwaffe. Its only purpose was to create nice cushy jobs and budget allocations, no one of its authors and advocates ever had slightest belief that a single nut and bolt of it would ever be constructed.
Maybe, if SFRY didn't collapse it would have been a different story, but in anything close to OTL, there were nowhere near resources and funds to start any development, let alone manufacture a dozen (or 50!) aircraft.
Totally ASB. You can do a better WI by postulating SFRY buying some Western planes in late '80es instead of MIG-29s.
Maybe, if SFRY didn't collapse it would have been a different story, but in anything close to OTL, there were nowhere near resources and funds to start any development, let alone manufacture a dozen (or 50!) aircraft.
Totally ASB. You can do a better WI by postulating SFRY buying some Western planes in late '80es instead of MIG-29s.
burmafrd
Banned
One thing about modern society is that you are hard put to keep anything secret for very long. More shot down aircraft is a secret that just cannot be kept for long at all. There were no secret losses in the Kosovo war for NATO or the US. manufactured video's and so called transcripts mean nothing.
The video and CGI representations of this aircraft are not the same aircraft. Does it have dorsal fins or horizontal strakes? Are the wing outer panels and canard foreplanes swept or not? The air intakes are only clearly defined when they mimic Rafale. I am incapable of conjectural extrapolation based on a vague dream. As a domestic design, it seems awfully French. French engine, French avionics, French armament, occasionally Rafalesque configuration.