North Carolina as psudo-Unionist

I know it's been discussed before but... well I'm not allowed to bring a topic three years old.

Federal armories are seized by pro-rebel forces who turn them over to the North Carolina government, which to their surprise refuse to secede.

North Carolina refuses to secede from the Union, despite Virginia leaving. The NC goverment do say they will keep the cannons until the conflict is resolved, after which they plan to stay in the Union This leaves them completely surrounded by rebels.

The North Carolina government passes a resolution stated the importance of the union cause, but also says the federal government can't use NC railroads and manpower to bring the rebels back by force without governor approval, which means no drafting either. I think OTL Maryland actually tried something similar.

A secret letter goes to Lincoln saying that they'd love to be 100% unionist, but they are kind of surrounded and believe such a statement would keep the rebels from raiding their plantations, so unless they manage to close 75% of the gap between Union controlled DC and rebel controlled Richmond, trying to force the rebels back seems suicide. So it's not like the Maryland case of conflicting loyalty, but the "we're outnumbered" kind of thing. So if you want to land federal forces in NC by sea, you can't use our railroads without permission, it's not that we don't agree with the cause, it's that we think federal forces using our railroads would result in the rebels getting an excuse to overrun NC. Remember, a Virginia vs NC fight would result in Virginia winning.

Some people of NC do join the CSA, but let's say that the numbers are... 1/30 of the number of OTL men that join the CSA. Some venture to Northern lines to join the Union cuase, same number as in OTL. And the rest of them... well I guess they would sit around in NC and try to continue with their lives hoping the rebels leave them alone.

What happens? Assume that if the CSA try to take NC by force, they don't get additional support from secessionists in the state aside from the previously mentioned ones.

To Clarify; About the title, I don't mean they aren't unionists at heart. They really want the North to win. They just think that allowing use of their railroads or allowing drafting by feds would be a recipe for disaster
 
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Anaxagoras

Banned
Secessionist members of the legislature/secession convention storm out and assemble on their own, then pass ordinances of secession declaring their state out of the Union and appealing for immediate Confederate support. "Orders" also go out to the militia to ignore any instructions from the Unionist government.

It would be like Kentucky, except that the Confederates would be the ones with the ability to move their troops in very quickly.
 
Let's say the stale militia mostly stay with their government for the sake or argument (the exceptions can be those that stream out) that leaves the unionist government mostly in control of the state. Or even easier, heave at least 75% of the legislature AND the governor remain unionist, no one is going to buy the legitimacy of a rump stormed out legislature, at least in Kentucky the Uninists didn't have a supermajority
 
The unionist parts of North Carolina (which certainly existed) are too poor and isolated to stay with the Union. The political power rested in the hands of the planter elites. And Unlike West Virginia, they are too far away for the North to supply and back.
 
The unionist parts of North Carolina (which certainly existed) are too poor and isolated to stay with the Union. The political power rested in the hands of the planter elites. And Unlike West Virginia, they are too far away for the North to supply and back.

On the contrary, I thought most of the planter class in NC wasn't so keep on succession at first (this doesn't mean they were willing to fight for the union, it just means they weren't keen on the thought of open rebellion yet). The strongest unionist support were village-like communities that were out of the rail network, but there was some unionist sentiment diffused though the state in OTL. Consider it had the highest desertion rates...

So it seems that right on the Virginia succeeding, North Carolina's opinion as a whole was on the cusp of decision and any side with a great orator might be able to tip the balance.

But that's not too relevant. That's OTL. In TTL, I'm saying the government tries to go with the North and most of the people don't actively fight it. So even if my tectbooks are wrong, we'll just replace OTL with what my textbook said was the sentiment before Virginia seceded. I suppose some would be secessionists might "forget" to pay their taxes or "didn't show up for the state militia" and I already said what happened to the few die hard secessionists.
 
That's OTL. In TTL, I'm saying the government tries to go with the North and most of the people don't actively fight it. So even if my tectbooks are wrong, we'll just replace OTL with what my textbook said was the sentiment before Virginia seceded. I suppose some would be secessionists might "forget" to pay their taxes or "didn't show up for the state militia" and I already said what happened to the few die hard secessionists.

The CSA would never allow a neutral state to exist right in the heart of their territory. If there are SO few secessionists that even an outright invasion could not legitimize it, then the entire South and Civil War will be different.
 
Actually, even if the secessionists regained control of NC fairly quickly, wouldn't this have butterflies on the Peninsular campaign? With a unionist governor, he's going to make sure that before he falls, he's going to make sure his men aren't recruited in the CSA forces. If CSA tries to annext it, he'd launch a propaganda campaign to make sure the South took NC's land, but not its brainpoer.
 
The CSA would never allow a neutral state to exist right in the heart of their territory. If there are SO few secessionists that even an outright invasion could not legitimize it, then the entire South and Civil War will be different.

Great. What do you think the difference would be?

Ignoring the forces that need to be put to the Battle of Bull Run (and therefore be deployed in Virginia), the forces the South can put at their disposal against NC would be 3 to 1 (assume full unionist sentiment) or 32 to 1 (assume that the state went unionist because many OTL NC recruits took their governor's advice to not help the rebels, but at the same time not risking their necks for him either), with the federal armories and cannons in the hands of the Unionist State Militia. So, it seems an outright invasion is doable, but it'd have to be done with CSA forces, not form NC secessionists.
 
Great. What do you think the difference would be?

Ignoring the forces that need to be put to the Battle of Bull Run (and therefore be deployed in Virginia), the forces the South can put at their disposal against NC would be 3 to 1 (assume full unionist sentiment) or 32 to 1 (assume that the state went unionist because many OTL NC recruits took their governor's advice to not help the rebels, but at the same time not risking their necks for him either), with the federal armories and cannons in the hands of the Unionist State Militia. So, it seems an outright invasion is doable, but it'd have to be done with CSA forces, not form NC secessionists.

My thought is more, if in NC unionists are so strong, it is likely the circumstances that led to that would have major ramifications in the south as well. It isn't as if we can change NC so radically but not alter say, Virginia or Tennessee. Whatever caused Unionist sentiment to be that much stronger in TTL, probably effects other areas, yes?
 
My thought is more, if in NC unionists are so strong, it is likely the circumstances that led to that would have major ramifications in the south as well. It isn't as if we can change NC so radically but not alter say, Virginia or Tennessee. Whatever caused Unionist sentiment to be that much stronger in TTL, probably effects other areas, yes?

Unionism didn't have a majority in OTL, but the government did want to stay unionist up until Virginia. Going by the text, area around modern Charlotte, Durham, Faynettesvwile, and most of the planter class and the middle class rural everywhere in the state were undecided in the early days, but as time passed, the Southern cause won and by 1862, most of those who were previously on the fence not only supported the CSA but convinced themselves that the decision should have been obvious to them. This means unlike the other CSA states, a good unionist orator and a unionist state government could force the seccionists to the fringes of think-space.

In contrast, most of the rest of the major city populations in the to-be CSA as well as the plantar class were not willing to let Lincoln fight fellow Southerners.

However, North Carolina's public opinion seemed on the cusp and they only later convinced themselves the South was right (and obviously once the war was over convince themselves they made a mistake). But if the unionist sentiment is sufficiency strong, the circumstances might be able to affect the other rural areas of say... Virginia and Tennessee. the seccsionists might find themselves in control of plantation and the urban areas, but little of the rural areas!
 
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