North American Revolutions of 1772

After a long absence, I've got an idea I'd really like to work up: a scenario where the Louisiana Rebellion of 1768 and the American Revolution coincide, and both gain their independance. I put 1772 in the title as a median year, but it can be easily changed to suit my goal.

What I'm ultimately looking at is an excuse for an independent German Coast in which to place a alt-hist conlang of a German-French-Spanish Creole. A balkanized NA with would be a bonus.

Some ideas that might help contribute:

The Anglo-Dutch war go differetly, and the Dutch keep New Amsterdam. I'm wondering if a different outcome of the Amboyna massacre, maybe blaimedonthe Portusese or Spanishinstead of the Eglishcould be a good POD.

Ideas?
 
German colonialism didn't really begin until after the 1848 Revolution, so inventing a "German Coast" will be exceptionally difficult. The primary reason there was little German colonization is because Germany did not exist as a united nation. Until 1870, Germany was occupied by numerous small kingdoms, principalities, duchies, counties, baronies, electorates, and Church lands. There was very little organized governance over the entire region - the Holy Roman Empire and later the German Confederation held only a small amount of power over the autonomous German states. While there were conflicts between the small nations, none were severe or long-lasting enough to prompt people to flee to other lands. Also, due to the unique nature of the German confederation, religion was not a factor in mass movement. While most of the German nations were Protestant, there were sufficient Catholic nations so that Catholics did not have to leave Germany. Religious tolerance, a lack of extended warfare, and a moderate climate worked together to keep Germans at home. It wasn't until the political turmoil of the mid-19th Century that they began to come to America.
 
Most of the Germans who came to North America prior to 1848 settled in Pennsylvania and upstate New York. There were quite a few in that area by the time of the Revolution.

Many did leave Germany due to religious persecutions -- mostly Lutherans came originally, but also smaller denominations like Quakers and Mennonites (German Catholics came later). There was also a limit to available farmland in Germany.
 
Oh dear.

So the Côte des Allemands is a figment of my imagination?

What happened to the Louisiana Rebellion of 1768 in your history books?


Four settlements doth not make a nation state! i am writing a time line where the Prussians need a navy, or at least a need to expand beyond Europe. If you can make this work I will read avidly. (The establishment of an "American" German state, or Colony)
 
There was some discussion a while back about the Hansa expanding, possibly forming the core of a new state, possibly having colonies. I could see Hansa colonies if the New World were 'discovered' earlier. They would likely be trading entrepots like the Dutch New Amsterdam iOTL, rather than settlement colonies like the English, but it might fulfill the OP...
 
Most of the Germans who came to North America prior to 1848 settled in Pennsylvania and upstate New York. There were quite a few in that area by the time of the Revolution.

Many did leave Germany due to religious persecutions -- mostly Lutherans came originally, but also smaller denominations like Quakers and Mennonites (German Catholics came later). There was also a limit to available farmland in Germany.

Some of my ancestors, named Cole (probably originally Kohl) were among them, arriving in western New Jersey sometime in the 1750's or 60's.
 
After a long absence, I've got an idea I'd really like to work up: a scenario where the Louisiana Rebellion of 1768 and the American Revolution coincide, and both gain their independance. I put 1772 in the title as a median year, but it can be easily changed to suit my goal.

What I'm ultimately looking at is an excuse for an independent German Coast in which to place a alt-hist conlang of a German-French-Spanish Creole. A balkanized NA with would be a bonus.

Some ideas that might help contribute:

The Anglo-Dutch war go differetly, and the Dutch keep New Amsterdam. I'm wondering if a different outcome of the Amboyna massacre, maybe blaimedonthe Portusese or Spanishinstead of the Eglishcould be a good POD.

Ideas?

To my mind, 1772 is a bit early for an alt-american revolution. The British haven't quite done enough, and proto-revolutionary sentiments are just beginning to coalesce and become mainstream. A rather drastic event would probably be needed to bring the colonies together.

German colonization in any meaningful number, outside of Pennsylvania and such, isn;t due to happen for a number of years. Maybe if the area remains european controlled but sparsely settled, but...

BTW, the Anglo-Dutch war you referred to happened a hundred odd years before the american revolution. New Amsterdam/New York was thoroughly Anglicized by the 1760s.
 
Most of the Germans who came to North America prior to 1848 settled in Pennsylvania and upstate New York. There were quite a few in that area by the time of the Revolution.

Many did leave Germany due to religious persecutions -- mostly Lutherans came originally, but also smaller denominations like Quakers and Mennonites (German Catholics came later). There was also a limit to available farmland in Germany.

The Quakers were mostly English & Welsh. You're probably confusing them with the Amish. And some of them were second & third or bastard children of nobility. Think of them like rich kid Baby Boomers starting hippie communes in the 1960s.

As for PA Germans, the major reason why they came was because of the 30 years war. They were a German/Swiss mix & mostly from the Rheinland--especially the Palatinate region. Some of them had originally lived in Switzerland, but they had moved in the 1500s to Heidelberg. Then when the 30 years war came along they travelled down the river to Amsterdam, stayed there for only a generation (probably to earn the money to cross the ocean) and then travelled to America. They usually were the smart ones who saw the writing on the wall and got out as soon as they could.

Then there were those who were chased out of Germany due to other family members being executed.

Both are examples from my family tree.

Some ancestral names:

Hollowbush (Hülpusch), Herzel (Hertzel), Simmers (Zimmers), Spare (Spär), Bergey (Burgi/Burki), Ulrich, Nyce (Neuss), Neiffer, Pennypacker (Pfannebecker), Grabenstein, Barndt, Haas, Scheib, Keller, Gorgas, Fuhrman, Keyser, Finckler, Umstat, Souplis, Schmidt, Hoffmann, Blomen, Heyes, Ruoff, Rapp, and Reiff.

After the Revolution, some stayed in PA & Western NY. The rest moved out and settled Ohio, Indiana, & Illinois. It's why these four states have a common predominant accent--Northern Midland; which thanks to television & News Broadcasters, it has come to be accepted as the "American Accent".

(And now back to the original topic)

So if you want more Germans in North America, one way would be to make the 30 years war even worse. Another would be to get the Prussians up and running earlier.

~Salamon2
 
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Thanks for the various comments here.


I have a few questions.

Am I really overestimating the German precence?

Louisiana's German citizens constitute both one of the oldest and one of the newest populations in the state. The earliest recorded German immigrants to Louisiana arrived in 1722, and Germans continue to arrive every year, especially in the New Orleans area. The fact that residents of German descent actually comprise Louisiana's largest cultural group is often overlooked, and it has only been in the last decade that scholarly forays have been made into this history. According to Reverend Heinz Neumann, who maintains the Deutsche Seemannsmission (German Seamen's Mission) in New Orleans, "The two world wars contributed to the muting of this culture in Louisiana and America, so that many people are not aware of the German traditions here and the contributions Germans continue to make in Louisiana." Indeed, residents of the New Orleans area commonly expressed surprise on learning that Germany contributed vitally needed pumps and major assistance after Hurricane Katrina because of its acknowledged close ties to the city. These ties are not often recognized or understood by Louisiana's non-German residents.
http://www.louisianafolklife.org/LT/Articles_Essays/German.html

If indeed I am, what sort of impitus might send more German (and Swiss for bonus points) immigrants towards Louisiana?
 
To my mind, 1772 is a bit early for an alt-american revolution. The British haven't quite done enough, and proto-revolutionary sentiments are just beginning to coalesce and become mainstream. A rather drastic event would probably be needed to bring the colonies together.

German colonization in any meaningful number, outside of Pennsylvania and such, isn;t due to happen for a number of years. Maybe if the area remains european controlled but sparsely settled, but...

BTW, the Anglo-Dutch war you referred to happened a hundred odd years before the american revolution. New Amsterdam/New York was thoroughly Anglicized by the 1760s.

Yes, I know the Anglo-Dutch War was earlier. I was thinking if New Amsterdam remained Dutch, that the German Coast Rebellion might have more of a chance at sucess.

1772 was a nice intermediate between 1768 and 1776,but the exact timing's not all that important,

To turn this around a bit, the outcome I'm, looking for, in order of importance, is:

1) The Louisiana Rebellion of 1768 wins independance along with the British colonies.

2) Balkanized North America, likely with an independent New Amsterdam and maybe a Free Quebec.

My comments RE outcome of the Amboyna massacre were related to some thoughts I'd posted a while ago for a possible POD.

If that goes differently, the Dutch relations in Asia would be changed, positedas focusing more on NA.

That weakens the English hold.

The "perfect scenario" for what I want to do would end up with Quebec, New England, New Amsterdam, the Southern British Colonies, and German/Acadian Lousiana all rebelling roughly around the same time.
 
Yes, I know the Anglo-Dutch War was earlier. I was thinking if New Amsterdam remained Dutch, that the German Coast Rebellion might have more of a chance at sucess.

Not really sure how this follows. A continued Dutch presence in New Amsterdam means that a Creole rebellion protesting the turnover of Louisiana to Spain succeeds? More likely, butterflies mean that it doesn't happen in a recognizable form.

1772 was a nice intermediate between 1768 and 1776,but the exact timing's not all that important,

Good to know. for the record, 1772 just seems way to premature for an American revolution.

To turn this around a bit, the outcome I'm, looking for, in order of importance, is:

1) The Louisiana Rebellion of 1768 wins independance along with the British colonies.

They weren't asking for independence. They rebelled against the territory of Louisiana being transfered to Spain. the spanish replied by sending a force of troops, and the rebellion was put down in short order. So, in effect, Independence isn't likely, both because the rebels were not particularly interested in it, and because the Spanish can suppress the rebellion more or less at their leisure.

2) Balkanized North America, likely with an independent New Amsterdam and maybe a Free Quebec.

Doable (if a tad cliche), but if you want an independent New Amsterdam you need to go farther back, probably to the late 17th century.

My comments RE outcome of the Amboyna massacre were related to some thoughts I'd posted a while ago for a possible POD.

If that goes differently, the Dutch relations in Asia would be changed, positedas focusing more on NA.

That weakens the English hold.

I'm not really sure how this is relevant. Mainly because, well, the VOC was always the primary colonial focus of the Dutch. no conflict over Ambon island isn't going to shift their attention to a backwater colony in north america. Simply means less bad blood between english and dutch (which, i suppose, might butterfly into a longer survival of new amsterdam).

The "perfect scenario" for what I want to do would end up with Quebec, New England, New Amsterdam, the Southern British Colonies, and German/Acadian Lousiana all rebelling roughly around the same time.

In unison? Probably not possible. Simultaneous outbreaks of rebellious sentiment? possible, i suppose, but it would be difficult, given how the american revolution IOTL really came about as sort of a perfect storm.

BTW, I think you are seriously overestimating the presence of the german settlers in Louisiana. It was a few rather small settlements, and the 1768 rebellion was primarily a Creole affair.
 
Would killing off Napoleon before the Treaty of San Ildefonso of 1800 work?

Might that keep Louisiana in Spanish hands until Louisiana's ready to revolt along with Mexico, and allow for an accelerated German immigration?
 
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